Juvenile Gull Cornwall 12/09/2023 (1 Viewer)

[Original PaulE]

I was thinking this might be a Juvenile Yellow-legged Gull, seems to have a bit of a pale window in the wing, or have I got my wishful thinking head on again!!

 

[Original PaulE]

No thoughts on my gull?

 

[Stonefaction]

No thoughts on my gull?

Having posted a few gull queries on here myself from time to time it appears that if you don't attract the attemtion of one of the few gull experts then hardly anyone wants to stick their head above the parapet to offer an opinion (probably as younger gull ID is a minefield with so much variation between individuals).

 

[Original PaulE]

Having posted a few gull queries on here myself from time to time it appears that if you don't attract the attemtion of one of the few gull experts then hardly anyone wants to stick their head above the parapet to offer an opinion (probably as younger gull ID is a minefield with so much variation between individuals).

Yes it is difficult, I have consulted my big Gull book and I'm leaning towards YLG which probably means it's a LBBG

 

[Stonefaction]

Yes it is difficult, I have consulted my big Gull book and I'm leaning towards YLG which probably means it's a LBBG

We don't get very many YLG or Caspians up here (I've seen 1 of each - adult YLG & 2 or 3y CG) so I don't get the chance to practice very often and so far all the birds I've found that look 'interesting' have been Herring Gulls (or less often, Lesser Black Backed youngsters). I think I could (just about) ID a typical Caspian now, and maybe an adult YLG, but so far even when I find a bird that seems to fit the criteria it turns out not to be either.

 

[CARERY]

I'm really no gull expert and usually stay away from commenting on gulls. But usually juveniles are easier than other age classes (except perhaps adults). I'm quite confident this is a LBBG because I don't see any signs of moult. YLG would have started by now and show two rather differently patterned feather generations at the back. Further, the axillaries are maybe too solidly dark as are the outer vanes of the inner primaries. It also lacks a dark mask...

 

[Original PaulE]

I'm really no gull expert and usually stay away from commenting on gulls. But usually juveniles are easier than other age classes (except perhaps adults). I'm quite confident this is a LBBG because I don't see any signs of moult. YLG would have started by now a show two rather differently patterned feathers on the back. Further the axillaries are maybe too solidly dark as are the outer vanes of the inner primaries. It also lacks a dark mask...

Thanks Carery at least I managed to narrow it down to one of two!!!! Much appreciated

 

[Paul Penzance]

Would think possibly a Caspian

 

[Stonefaction]

Would think possibly a Caspian

Shouldn't a Caspian's underwing be much paler?

 

[Evan Atkinson]

Would think possibly a Caspian

Caspian is ruled out by the lack of a pale underwing. Personally I am thinking this is a juv LBBG but like others have said, juv gulls are an absolute nightmare to deal with. Hopefully others will comment.

 

[lou salomon]

Hi Paul, you actually have a young (1cy) YLG here, a female type. As Roland (Carery) says and to the contrary of common belief, most juveniles or 1st winter large gulls actually are easier to identify than adults. As you have observed, inner primaries show a medium pale window (less than in HG, more than in LBBG), with pale inner webs and dark outers. Bill is shortish, stubby and high, ok for a female type YLG - and would be weaker in most LBBG. Bases to outer rectrices (tail feathers) are clean white and actually most scapulars are second generation, note anchor or double-anchor-pattern in them.

 

[Original PaulE]

Hi Paul, you actually have a young (1cy) YLG here, a female type. As Roland (Carery) says and to the contrary of common belief, most juveniles or 1st winter large gulls actually are easier to identify than adults. As you have observed, inner primaries show a medium pale window (less than in HG, more than in LBBG), with pale inner webs and dark outers. Bill is shortish, stubby and high, ok for a female type YLG - and would be weaker in most LBBG. Bases to outer rectrices (tail feathers) are clean white and actually most scapulars are second generation, note anchor or double-anchor-pattern in them.

Thanks Lou, I had noticed the window!! They may be easier for you, but I'm still struggling. I thought it was one or the other and was leaning towards YLG so maybe I'm getting slightly better!!

 

[CARERY]

Hi Paul, you actually have a young (1cy) YLG here, a female type. As Roland (Carery) says and to the contrary of common belief, most juveniles or 1st winter large gulls actually are easier to identify than adults. As you have observed, inner primaries show a medium pale window (less than in HG, more than in LBBG), with pale inner webs and dark outers. Bill is shortish, stubby and high, ok for a female type YLG - and would be weaker in most LBBG. Bases to outer rectrices (tail feathers) are clean white and actually most scapulars are second generation, note anchor or double-anchor-pattern in them.

I knew I should've shut up ... saw the double-anchor but still didn't get to the right conclusion. Thanks Lou!

 

[Alexander Stöhr]

Hello Roland,

please dont. And thanks Lou from me too for Identification!