Lee Evans interviewed by David Lindo (2 Viewers)

[Steve Babbs]

Apparently he has chucked in. See the thread on lists. Like Jos I've always found him quite pleasant but this quote:
'... I am not able to hold authority and have fallen so far out of favour with twitchers, then nobody can and this can only be a turning point for that aspect of the hobby.'
Does really sum up the delusion thing.

Lee I genuinely hope you find pleasure in your birding and people who have given you abuse in the privacy of your own home are ****ers. But, and I'm pretty sure twitching will survive without you.

 

[Lee Evans]

Steve

Thanks for your comments. Have you actually been on a twitch in recent times - I seem to remember someone by your name birding in the 1980's - but maybe I'm mistaken.

There is no delusion I am afraid. I have been present at virtually every major twitch (certainly mainland) in the past 40 years and I know how much the twitching paraphanelia has deterioated and have helped organise on many, many occasions (in fact, in the BIS days, It was frequently part of our deal in dissemination that I did organise the event).

Take today for example. The American Robin was not given one chance to feed as it wanted at Exminster - lines of twitchers along the access road to the Turf Hotel ensured that. Result - just brief snatches of view. When first found and on the first couple of weekdays, the bird showed cripplingly well and was settled - now it is on the move constantly, moving between hedgerows.

Take both American Bittern twitches of late - no proper organisation, with birder's selfishness prevailing. Mistakes made with entering the sedgebed and environs and net result - banning from site and welfare of bird considered last. At Walmsley, not much better - bitter arguments in and outside hide as birders removed to take turns and removed to move from the front

PIED-BILLED GREBE currently - same behaviour, no shift rota on hide where bird performs best and too much noise and interference when close to, preventing bird from settling.

Twitches and twitchers need organising and I believe over the years, I have done a fairly good job in doing so. The situation has got so bad now that genuine long-standing birders are sensibly thinking twice about releasing news of their finds - birds are there to be cherished and not just some tick in a book. Rare birds should be celebrated and enjoyed but most importantly, the twitch must run smoothly and not to the detriment of the bird, the site or the relationship of the site owners or local residents.

At the Pied-billed Grebe twitch this week, I went out of my way to show local residents the bird, explain its significance and nurture their interest. Bigoted, egotistic and crazy maybe but not delusional.

A lot of people often have a lot to say about Franko too - another British birding maverick - but like me, he is concerned for the welfare of the bird and of the actions of twitchers, and I have been impressed at times by his ability to keep twitches in check. It really has to be done - otherwise, there will be no twitches to attend

 

[deboo]

Keep birding Lee...and forget about what anyone else thinks. T'aint worth a jot really.

dave...

 

[Steve Babbs]

Steve

Thanks for your comments. Have you actually been on a twitch in recent times - I seem to remember someone by your name birding in the 1980's - but maybe I'm mistaken.

There is no delusion I am afraid. I have been present at virtually every major twitch (certainly mainland) in the past 40 years and I know how much the twitching paraphanelia has deterioated and have helped organise on many, many occasions (in fact, in the BIS days, It was frequently part of our deal in dissemination that I did organise the event).

Take today for example. The American Robin was not given one chance to feed as it wanted at Exminster - lines of twitchers along the access road to the Turf Hotel ensured that. Result - just brief snatches of view. When first found and on the first couple of weekdays, the bird showed cripplingly well and was settled - now it is on the move constantly, moving between hedgerows.

Take both American Bittern twitches of late - no proper organisation, with birder's selfishness prevailing. Mistakes made with entering the sedgebed and environs and net result - banning from site and welfare of bird considered last. At Walmsley, not much better - bitter arguments in and outside hide as birders removed to take turns and removed to move from the front

PIED-BILLED GREBE currently - same behaviour, no shift rota on hide where bird performs best and too much noise and interference when close to, preventing bird from settling.

Twitches and twitchers need organising and I believe over the years, I have done a fairly good job in doing so. The situation has got so bad now that genuine long-standing birders are sensibly thinking twice about releasing news of their finds - birds are there to be cherished and not just some tick in a book. Rare birds should be celebrated and enjoyed but most importantly, the twitch must run smoothly and not to the detriment of the bird, the site or the relationship of the site owners or local residents.

At the Pied-billed Grebe twitch this week, I went out of my way to show local residents the bird, explain its significance and nurture their interest. Bigoted, egotistic and crazy maybe but not delusional.

A lot of people often have a lot to say about Franko too - another British birding maverick - but like me, he is concerned for the welfare of the bird and of the actions of twitchers, and I have been impressed at times by his ability to keep twitches in check. It really has to be done - otherwise, there will be no twitches to attend

Yes Lee, I concentrate on 'world birding', as well as flogging my local patches, these days but I do get to most things I've never seen in the UK. Your attempt to dismiss me with your 'maybe I'm mistaken' comment doesn't really do the job. I passed the criteria to join your club in 1993 and although I haven't been around quite as long as you I have I have been seriously birding since 1981. It would seem your database isn't that complete. But I will admit my interest in being one of the 'top' listers disappeared with my first tropical birding in 1986.

I have seen your organisation of many twitches and I don't deny that it was often useful but what I - and every other birders whose opinion I respect - don't accept is that you know better than us and have a right to say what people have seen.

 

[username]

Franko did a great job at the ECrowned Warbler....re organizing....[i remember being very impressed]....!

 

[Lee Evans]

''don't accept is that you know better than us and have a right to say what people have see''

If you give a specific example of this, I will try my best to answer it. I am not sure what you are trying to say here. The only area this applies to is an area of contentiousness - either where a bird has been incorrectly identified, a bird is no longer present (but claimed to be so by the odd person), a bird has been purposefully invented/fabricated, or a bird has been erroneously reported. The majority of birders are never questioned because they are wholly reliable.

 

[Steve Babbs]

But why is it up to you to decide these things? That's my point you have described yourself as the 'policeman' of twitching. Who appointed you? I certainly don't accept you and neither do most people I know and all the people I respect. Certainly in Suffolk I remember great hilarity when a fairly well known Suffolk twitcher did say he followed your list.

I think it's Pub O'clock time now.

 

[mary99]

Policing the lists is fair enough, but you need to take yourself out of the game to be condisered impartial.

Mary

 

[Lee Evans]

Steve

I still do not understand your point. The decisions made by the Club are not my own but that of a culmination of 30 or more of those I have chosen or have been nominated as my Advisors - a list of which can be found on my National Website. These are the most qualified birders in the land and of whom I hold the highest degree of integrity and trust. I solicit outside input on any record of contention, with specialist help being sought for the more difficult identifications. All of this incoming information is reviewed and I write a synopsis summarising a stance.

Likewise, if it is individual birders that we are talking rather than bird records, I solicit help from recorders or pertinent members of a county if I have doubt over the credibility of an observer.

Furthermore, my Society is member-based and I have no jurisdiction of anyone that doesn't want to follow my list, in the same way that BBRC have any right to, nor Birdwatch, nor BuBo or any other organisation that dabbles with listing. And, in any case, there is no such thing as official, as I have every and equal right to publish bird records from Britain and Ireland that I consider acceptable based on the information put forward.

 

[stevo]

Yes people do make mistakes with ID of myself included but mistakes in ID are not confined to novices I can think of a certain sandplover at Pagham harbour in west sussex a few years ago that was wrongly called and turned out to be a lesser sandplover.

Steve.

 

[black kite 1964]

Furthermore, my Society is member-based and I have no jurisdiction of anyo
ne that doesn't want to follow my list, in the same way that BBRC have any right to, nor Birdwatch, nor BuBo or any other organisation that dabbles with listing. Lee Evans.

Agree in part Lee. Listers follow a number of different listing criteria - be they uk 400, BOU et al. That is fine by me.

Where I differ, is the role of the BBRC who decide on the correct indentification of rare birds. As a panel, they do not "dabble", they judge records according to strict criteria.

As birders, we do not always agree with every decision made by the BBRC. However, overall, the work of the BBRC is well respected by birders, including myself.

Lee. Sorry that you are recieving inappropiate phone calls and messages - that is not called for!!

 

[Lee Evans]

Steve

Everyone makes mistakes - no-one is infallible - and what's more birding is very difficult. No one is being ridiculed for that - and it is certainly not a crime. I would rather hear about a misidentified bird than not. I have made loads of mistakes - last year alone I talked myself out of (or more accurately allowed myself to be talked out of) an Oriental Pratincole at Pagham North Wall and have previously mistaken a Hen Harrier for a Montagu's Harrier at Titchwell in June. I also got drawn in by the 'Paddyfield Warbler' Common Chiffchaff at Landguard and there are many more examples. I also got taken in by a very yellow underwing-ed juvenile Blackcap in Surrey which I confidently identified as a Common Chiffchaff. One must realise one's mistakes and correct them.

 

[Lee Evans]

Mark

I have a lot of respect for aspects of the BBRC committee too but feel that in recent times, there is far too much emphasis on photographic evidence rather than actual field descriptions. I feel inferior now as I don't carry a camera. Talking to various members of the Committee, I feel some resolution of practises and many records are just simply sliptreamed through without any thorough adjudication. Other records are scrutinised beyond belief.

For example, I was basically told that in relation to rare seabirds, records without photographic evidence are very unlikely to go anywhere. Current field guides provide all of the answers that any one needs for a submission. When I chased up a record of mine from last year (North Atlantic Little Shearwater off Pendeen Watchpoint), the other four observers felt that it was pointless submitting the record as we had no proof other than a description of what we saw. Linton Proctor had initially got me on to the bird, and so not to be accused of poaching his claim, I did not submit my notes on the bird.

Likewise, I saw a Great Snipe on the Wirral on two occasions which had been seen previously by large numbers of observers on earlier dates (for example by Kieran Foster and Richard Bonser). On the day that I relocated it, I managed to get 25 or so other birders on to it before it was lost to view but again this record has never seen light of day. I suggested submitting it to the Committee and I was told ''we don't accept overwintering Great Snipes without photographic evidence''

Furthermore, I detest their policy of not accepting or documenting records of either/ors (for example, Pied or Black-eared Wheatears that Committee feels unable to separate). These should ALL be listed for posterity and not simply lost for ever.

 

[Jos Stratford]

I for one would wish to thank you Lee for participating on Bird Forum, it is good to see both sides of the debate presented. If you're ditching the listing business, or at least the monitoring of it, I'm sure you'll still keep threads 'lively' if nothing else, I hope you continue to post for a while.

 

[Jane Turner]

Where/when was the Snipe?

 

[Lee Evans]

Jos

Many many thanks for your kind comments - they are very much appreciated in this wash of gloom. Also, massive apologies for not having the time to respond to you at a personal level - as you can appreciate I am inundated at present. Yes, I certainly remember you (and of course Steve Babbs of Ipswich - I was just testing there of course) and it was great to see both of you in the Golden Days of Scilly. Also, great images of Pygmy Owls and the like from your garden in Lithuania that you kindly sent me.

At Steve's request, I did serve some period of time at this forum in the past but decided to leave once it attracted the more disruptive classmates to participate. Birdforum, if used correctly, can be an absolutely fantastic resource and the consistent RBA posts on the Rare Bird Information section has certainly proved that. As I have said before, I am more than happy to participate and offer advice and information if I receive respect from by abstainers. We can all have very healthy debate if we respect each other's positions and views. NOBODY is an expert in every aspect of birding and we can all learn greatly from each other, even those new to the pastime. Only today, I had a very long chat with Richard Bonser. Both he and I have had major differences in the past and some really heated arguments but at the end of the day, I have great respect for him and we can iron out all of our differences quite easily man to man. Even Robert Fuge, who I consider perhaps my closest birding associate, have had our differences, but that's life. These relationships are very much like marriages and the stress of birding can often takes its toll. Joan Thompson knows what I am like when I am under pressure - and we all have to take time to chill out.

 

[Lee Evans]

Jane

It was a wintering bird at Fazakerley - perhaps Sefton area - not sure. It was at the same time as a number of other weird occurrences - some fiction, some real - and in fact where I believe a rare wheatear was photographed. It appeared first in late October and remained all winter - I saw it in February of the following year. If it was not a Great Snipe, the only possibilities are much rarer species - such as Swinhoe's Snipe. However, I got decent views of the upperwing and tail pattern after it flushed from virtually under my feet and it matched Great Snipe in every aspect.

 

[Jane Turner]

Jane

It was a wintering bird at Fazakerley

That's not Wirral - phew I though I'd lost a week!

 

[black kite 1964]

Lee. I think you have to accept (albeit with reservations), that digital photography has significantly enhanced both birdwatching and the indentification of rare birds.

The Sussex Lesser Sand Plover would not have been indentified without photos. Two recent firsts for Britain would have been overlooked if it had not been for photos being posted on the net.

As for rare seabirds, I do take your point. Having said if your Little Shearwater was multi observed, then it is down to individuals to submit there notes.

Choosing not to submit records is individuals making choices.

 

[VillagerFred]

Does Mr Evans tweet (please excuse the non-intentional pun!)? I think if he did he would be as popular as Stephen Fry on Twitter amongst a certain proportion of the binocular swinging public!