Lesser scaup (France) or hybrid? (1 Viewer)

[Didier Godreau]

dear all

can you please help me to confirm the ID of this duck that seems a Lesser Scaup, and not possible hybrid ??!!


please have a look at the attached file (male tufted duck on the left)

many thanks in advance
Didier

(picture by Louis)

 

[NickPatel92]

I would say Lesser scaup (having seen a hybrid myself).

 

[goshawk227]

I wouldnt hesitate to call that a pure drake Lesser Scaup on this side of the pond. Good bird for France, eh?

 

[CAU]

Do you have more pictures or did you see the wing bar? In the picture the black tip of the bill looks rather wide, but perhaps it is just a photographic effect.

 

[Gentoo]

Do you have more pictures or did you see the wing bar? In the picture the black tip of the bill looks rather wide, but perhaps it is just a photographic effect.

I was thinking that too about the nail. Otherwise looks really good for a Lesser Scaup, it's just the bill that makes me only about 90% sure.

 

[JANJ]

Compare nail pattern (not always that reliable) with these Greaters together with head shape and flank pattern. What to make of 28 JPG? Also note that the american race of Greater nearctica has a darker back than European marila.

http://www.pbase.com/janet_from_dundas/scaup&page=all

http://10000birds.com/lesser-scaups.htm

The above Scaup looks good for Lesser purple sheen (can be greenish) head shape - but a wing pattern or more images would be good to see. The nail pattern is perhaps whitin the variation of Lesser or might be slightly blurred due to not 100% sharpness of the image.

JanJ

 

[Vinch]

Pure Greater Scaup, imho...

Best regards,

 

[CAU]

What to make of 28 JPG?

I think that some of the birds in the images look more like Lessers, for example the one in 28 and these:

http://www.pbase.com/janet_from_dundas/image/57986182

Compare the nail pattern and length to this one:

http://www.pbase.com/janet_from_dundas/image/57105473

 

[JANJ]

Right CAU, and I knew that you would find the other as well!

JanJ

 

[Didier Godreau]

dear all

here is another photo!

I have seen this bird myself and I don't believe as a Greater Scaup as this bird has the same size as all tufted ducks around! and very obvious more vertical corner at rear crown!

As you suggest it can be a 90% lesser scaup, hybrid with other duck!!??


Thank you for your next comments!!

Do you have more pictures or did you see the wing bar? In the picture the black tip of the bill looks rather wide, but perhaps it is just a photographic effect.

 

[CAU]

In the new photo the bird looks very good for Lesser Scaup, with a fairly dark back and with the peak of the crown located behind the eye. The black patch at the nail looks also better in this photo.

 

[Vinch]

Maybe a hybrid tufted duck X Pochard? the eye of your bird seems to be orange...

http://gallery.bofhcam.org/p26843309.html

http://ujihala.ld.infoseek.co.jp/koHybrid/hhybridko4.jpg

 

[Gentoo]

I think that some of the birds in the images look more like Lessers, for example the one in 28 and these:

http://www.pbase.com/janet_from_dundas/image/57986182

Compare the nail pattern and length to this one:

http://www.pbase.com/janet_from_dundas/image/57105473

I think this photo shows both a lesser and a greater:

http://www.pbase.com/janet_from_dundas/image/57986178

 

[JANJ]

Hi Gentoo.

Yes, you spotted the third one.

JanJ

 

[Twite]

Pure Greater Scaup, imho...

Best regards,

Maybe a hybrid tufted duck X Pochard? the eye of your bird seems to be orange...

http://gallery.bofhcam.org/p26843309.html

http://ujihala.ld.infoseek.co.jp/koHybrid/hhybridko4.jpg

Time to phone a friend.

Twite

 

[marklhawkes]

Based on the two photos of the French bird, and without seeing the wing pattern, I would say it looks OK for a Lesser Scaup (certainly not a Greater). Hybrids can be hard to eliminate, but nothing in these photos to suggest it may be one.

 

[Joern Lehmhus]

I´d agree on Lesser Scaup. i would exclude a hybrid here ( though one can not be 100% sure with these photos. Unfortunately one can not see the broadness of vermiculations on the back just behind the head, which would be very fine in a hybrid Tufted x Pochard.). The extention of black on the nail is ok for lesser, but would be wrong for the most common hybrid Tufted x Pochard.

 

[Rich Bonser]

Certainly an interesting bird - could well be a Lesser Scaup (it's not a Greater). Obviously a spread wing shot should reveal more.

But, on the couple of shots that have been attached on this thread, is it me or a photographic artefact that there appears to be a slightly paler blue area(reminscent of a slight subterminal band) where the bill meets the fairly extensive (but probably within affinis range) black bill nail?

From my experience affinis should show a wholly concolorous bill, bar the black nail at the tip.

There could even be a simple solution - the sun could be reflecting strongly on water glinting from a wet bill...

Cheers and good birding

Rich

 

[tittletattler]

Certainly an interesting bird - could well be a Lesser Scaup (it's not a Greater). Obviously a spread wing shot should reveal more.

But, on the couple of shots that have been attached on this thread, is it me or a photographic artefact that there appears to be a slightly paler blue area(reminscent of a slight subterminal band) where the bill meets the fairly extensive (but probably within affinis range) black bill nail?

From my experience affinis should show a wholly concolorous bill, bar the black nail at the tip.

There could even be a simple solution - the sun could be reflecting strongly on water glinting from a wet bill...

Cheers and good birding

Rich

I can see your point. However, if you look at the images of the bird currently in Scotland (Birdguides/Surfbirds etc) this bird also seems to show this effect albeit to a lesser extent.

 

[Binocularface]

I can see your point. However, if you look at the images of the bird currently in Scotland (Birdguides/Surfbirds etc) this bird also seems to show this effect albeit to a lesser extent.

I think this feature is within range for affinis as can be seen on the following images:

1st winter drake - Edinburgh 2007

Adult drake - Soulseat Loch 2008

Adult female - Caerlaverock 2006

Regards
Tristan