Need to identify the 4 raptors posted today (1 Viewer)

[Ains]

Today snapped these raptors. In the first snap, I'm not sure of the bird's ID above the second one below seems an Oriental Honey-buzzard. In the 2 photographs, the same bird from snap 1 to the one above, the 3 snap is a buzzard (common or Long-legged Buzzard) the 4 snap a vulture?
Location Mount Abu Raj. India.
Taken today, 8 Dec 2020.

 

[fdokykcu]

First two seem young Bonelli's Eagles to me

 

[Nutcracker]

#4 looks like a young Eurasian Black Vulture - bill black with a pink base.

 

[Ains]

First two seem young Bonelli's Eagles to me

I'm not familiar with sub-adults, but I think your observation is bang on. Bonelli's are regular visitors to our small hill resort. Thanks appreciated.

 

[Biancone]

Not convinced there are two species in #1. Think OP may be correct with Oriental Honey Buzzard for bird on lower right?

 

[Tote]

I think photo 1 shows Bonelli's and OHB.
Now the Buteo...

 

[tconzemi]

I see 2 juvenile Bonelli's eagle, a Buteo sp. and a Cinerious Vulture

 

[lou salomon]

actually i'm inclined to agree on OHB for the lower bird in pic 1, Tom. look at the differences in structure and plumage details.

 

[fdokykcu]

Not convinced there are two species in #1. Think OP may be correct with Oriental Honey Buzzard for bird on lower right?

It is subtle (and I've never seen OHB) but with Forsman book in my hands I think you're right

 

[tconzemi]

actually i'm inclined to agree on OHB for the lower bird in pic 1, Tom. look at the differences in structure and plumage details.

Yeah, not careful enough, now I see different barring and structure

 

[Deb Burhinus]

Agree with
1. Bonelli’s Eagle and Oriental HB
2. Bonelli’s Eagle
3. Buteo - likely vulpinus
4. Black Vulture

 

[njlarsen]

I am surprised by the proposal that this is a vulpinus. I have never been to Asia incl India, but I have a good deal of experience with Buteo from Europe. There are four species of Buteo in my India FG, and Buteo buteo looks like the least likely according to this FG: big heavy black patches behind the Alula and a dark belly band. So what makes it a common buzzard anyway?

Niels

 

[Ains]

Agree with
1. Bonelli’s Eagle and Oriental HB
2. Bonelli’s Eagle
3. Buteo - likely vulpinus
4. Black Vulture

actually I'm inclined to agree on OHB for the lower bird in pic 1, Tom. look at the differences in structure and plumage details.

Appreciated, thank you all for your observations.
Ains

 

[Deb Burhinus]

It’s not a Long-legged Buzzard so yes, vulpinus is one of the more likely options on range. There’s probably introgrades with burmanicus and/or japonicus ( the former found in the foothills of the Himalayas (this time of year) and japonicus on the Eastern side of the Himalayas ) and perhaps hitherto undocumented various other ssp. I’m not sure how you would go about separating them from the very variable ‘pure‘ Common Buzzards of the region so unless we are looking at Long-legged Buzzards, the buteos are probably best left unidentified to sub species imo.

Just to add, I also wouldn’t be surprised if vulpinus shared some plumage types with japonicus and burmanicus in the contact zones anyway and as with other intrograde races and ssp of buteos that occur in hybrid/intergrade zones, separating them on plumage might be very difficult.

Oriental Bird Club Image Database : Common Buzzard » Buteo buteo

http://orientalbirdimages.org/search.php?Bird_ID=913&Bird_Image_ID=168277&Bird_Family_ID= (taken in Japan)

Oriental Bird Club Image Database : Common Buzzard » Buteo buteo

Oriental Bird Club Image Database : Common Buzzard » Buteo buteo

Oriental Bird Club Image Database : Common Buzzard » Buteo buteo

 

[njlarsen]

OK, the images needs a little further comment.
The first one is just labeled Buteo buteo but the list of synonyms make it clear that it is pre-split of Himalayan and Eastern.
The second is labeled japonicus and would therefore be Eastern (B. japonicus) according to current taxonomy.
The third one is labeled burmanicus and therefore would be Himalayan (B. refectus) according to current taxonomy.
The fourth and fifth one is just labeled Buteo buteo but the list of synonyms make it clear that it is pre-split of Himalayan and Eastern.

So I agree that image three in the original post is a Buteo and that it could easily be labeled as Buteo buteo from the pre-split period but I disagree that it is likely Buteo buteo from the post-split taxonomy

Niels

 

[jalid]

The Buteo is a juvenile Himalayan Buzzard. Or japonicus, these are almost indistinguishable in my opinion, but let's call it Himalayan because of that should more expected there.

 

[Deb Burhinus]

The Buteo is a juvenile Himalayan Buzzard. Or japonicus, these are almost indistinguishable in my opinion, but let's call it Himalayan because of that should more expected there.

Interesting!

- literature I’ve read seems to point to burmanicus as largely sedentary (except for short range altitude migration) as resident of the Himalayas/Nepal/Pakistan and Steppe as wintering throughout India.


https://bubobirding.com/species/himalayan-buzzard/ and monotypic quite rufous (as the earlier link)

Buse de l'Himalaya - Buteo refectus - Himalayan Buzzard

Identification record : Himalayan Buzzard (Buteo refectus) is a bird which belongs to the family of Accipitridés and the order of Accipitriformes.

www.oiseaux.net

Observation.org

Observation.org wants to enable everyone to record and share observations, increasing the knowledge of nature.

observation.org

http://indianbirds.in/pdfs/IB.9.2.GanpuleBhatt_SteppeBuzzard.pdf states vulpinus winters ‘widely’ throughout the Indian continent

Opus has japonicus wintering in SE Asia, Korea and Southern Japan

So, I admit that I am confused as to the range of all three taxa and this is one of the most confusing threads I’ve read on the splits https://www.birdforum.net/threads/himalayan-buzzard.132483/

 

[Deb Burhinus]

OK, the images needs a little further comment.
The first one is just labeled Buteo buteo but the list of synonyms make it clear that it is pre-split of Himalayan and Eastern.
The second is labeled japonicus and would therefore be Eastern (B. japonicus) according to current taxonomy.
The third one is labeled burmanicus and therefore would be Himalayan (B. refectus) according to current taxonomy.
The fourth and fifth one is just labeled Buteo buteo but the list of synonyms make it clear that it is pre-split of Himalayan and Eastern.

So I agree that image three in the original post is a Buteo and that it could easily be labeled as Buteo buteo from the pre-split period but I disagree that it is likely Buteo buteo from the post-split taxonomy

Niels

The OBC tends to lump subspecies together on the database.

 

[Deb Burhinus]

Please provide up to date range maps for Eastern Buzzard and Himalayan Buzzard and also Steppe Buzzard wintering in India. Thank you. That would be very instructive! (As I did think the OP matched japonicus but discounted it on range)

 

[njlarsen]

The OBC tends to lump subspecies together on the database.

The point is that the main sources now view Himalayan and Eastern B. as full species, not subspecies.

Niels