brocknroller
porromaniac
I'd like to know why the black body EIIs control flare better than the gray body model, that's what "baffles" me.
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Nikon 8x30E11 (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter Bencw
- Start date
David Swain
Well-known member
I have had both an early gray model and have a current BB model, and I can't agree that the gray model handles flare noticeably better. But as noted, the SE handles flare exceptionally well.
David Swain
Well-known member
Pardon my syntax error. I meant to write "I can't agree the BB model handles glare noticeably better." I think there is some hope that the newer coatings will improve this, but I think limited baffling as well as the very short focal length (and correspondingly wide light "cone") of the optical train is the limiting factor (many other components being equal between the EII and SE).
David
David
henry link
Well-known member
In my veiling glare test set-up the SE and EII perform well, but neither is completely immune to glare. The source of it in both is reflection from the objective cell. Each has a baffle behind the objective, but the baffle designs are quite different. The EII has a shallow stamped cone made of thin metal that's held in place by pressure from the back of the objective glass. The design of the cell and baffle hasn't changed since the original 8x30 E and probably goes back to the Mikrons of the 1950s. The SE has a longer grooved cone that is simply the back part of the cast magnesium objective bell. In my tests neither works much better than the other to block reflections as seen from the eyepiece. The SE might be slightly less inclined to show glare simply because the exit pupil is a little larger and the longer eye relief may place some viewers' pupils at a slightly better position for avoiding glare.
As for black bodied EII's having better glare control, that would be true only if the objective baffling cone design has been changed along with the color. The objective can be easily removed for an inspection. Does it seem likely that a decades old baffle that already works pretty well would be changed or that a baffle change would be synchronized with an unrelated body color change?
As for black bodied EII's having better glare control, that would be true only if the objective baffling cone design has been changed along with the color. The objective can be easily removed for an inspection. Does it seem likely that a decades old baffle that already works pretty well would be changed or that a baffle change would be synchronized with an unrelated body color change?
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brocknroller
porromaniac
Henry, I can't answer your rhetorical question since I didn't take the objectives apart, I can only report what I saw in comparing one 8x30 II BB with two 8x30 EII GBs side by side under challenging lighting conditions.
Nikon not only changed the color of the body, they changed the armoring. The BB armor is harder and does appear to be much hardier than thin armor on the GB model. I had the 10x35 EII BB out in hot and humid weather that would cause my remaining GB sample's armor to bubble, but it remained intact. So it wasn't just a color change, they addressed the widely reported problem of the flimsy armor coming loose.
Brock
Nikon not only changed the color of the body, they changed the armoring. The BB armor is harder and does appear to be much hardier than thin armor on the GB model. I had the 10x35 EII BB out in hot and humid weather that would cause my remaining GB sample's armor to bubble, but it remained intact. So it wasn't just a color change, they addressed the widely reported problem of the flimsy armor coming loose.
Brock
David Swain
Well-known member
Indeed, the glue used on the BB EIIs is solid and heat resistant. However, the armoring itself wears more quickly than that on the GB model. In under a year of use my BBs now have worn smooth where my thumbs rest and many small dings and scratches in the black paint; in 2 years of steady use my GBs showed little wear on the grips and only slight burnishing of the body.
Your mileage, I am sure, varies.
Your mileage, I am sure, varies.
brocknroller
porromaniac
David,
I'm surprised to hear that. My "mileage" was only three weeks with the 8x BB EII. The 10x BB I had for at least a year, but I didn't use it as often as my GB 8x, and Bruce H, who now owns the 10x EII BB, can attest that the armor is fully intact.
Disturbing to hear that with steady use, the pebbly texture wears on the BB version. The BB's armoring is so hard compared to the GB model, I wouldn't have expected that. The armor on my back-up sample that I recently sold was fully intact, my daily use sample's rubber armor still looks good but I had to glue it back on since it bubbled and then partially separated from the housing on one side.
I always keep my bins around my neck, and grab them with my hands if I'm walking through thick brush, which I don't do often, so I've never gotten any dings, although the EII is more vulnerable in that regard than the SE because the EII's objective housings are not armored and the armor doesn't cover the entire prism housings.
Despite the armor issues on both versions, I would like to buy 8x and 10x BB models in the future, because I have yet to try any roof that doesn't cost multiple times more that compares in terms of image quality and FOV. If the armor does eventually wear like yours, I'll send it to Japan for repairs. Even adding whatever they charge to the original purchase price would probably still be a lot cheaper than buying an alpha.
Brock
henry link
Well-known member
In that case I'll just file your observation under "More Information Needed" for the time being.
Henry
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NDhunter
Experienced observer
Henry:
I own both the 8x30 EII and the SE 8x32, but the SE wins hands down
for me in handling and ergos, so it has been the one I have used the most.
I do know the SE, handles glare and direct lighting very well, and it
is better than the Nikon EDG 8x32, in this respect, as I have tested them
both side by side. Nikon has a very good design with the SE, no question.
My question, is how the eyepiece differs between the SE and EII, in
these 2 models ? The SE has a flatfield design, while the EII is not.
What other differences are there ?
Jerry
henry link
Well-known member
Jerry,
I'm afraid I don't know any more about the actual designs of the eyepieces than I did almost ten years ago when I wrote this paragraph in a comparative review of the SE, EII and E.
"I removed an eyepiece from each binocular to see what I could discover about their design differences. I have dissassembled the eyepiece of the E before so I know it is has 5 elements/3groups in a 2-2-1 arrangement. Looking at reflections of a light bulb returning from the elements I saw what I expected; 6 coated glass to air surfaces and two cementings. I was not keen to take apart the SE and EII eyepieces so I just tried to analyse the reflections I saw in them. The EII showed a somewhat diffrerent pattern from the E, indicating a changed design with what appears to be 8 coated surfaces and two cementings; so I think it has one extra element compared to the E. The SE was harder to read. I’m not sure, but I think it probably has 6 elements in 4 groups like the EII (but not the same design). I measured the field stop diameters as closely as my household measuring tools allow. The E fieldstop is about 15.8-16mm and the fieldstops of the EII and the SE are identical at about 17-17.2mm. These measurements tend to confirm that the focal length of the EII objective is about 110mm and the SE about 130mm."
Henry
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David Swain
Well-known member
The BB model armor is (as many have noted) quite sticky in humid weather. I use mine primarily in New England in the warmer months, and in 2014 I was fortunate enough to use them in both South Texas and Florida. I like to wear them bandolier style, and the grab-and-swing likely creates more wear. Or, I just bird a lot.
In any case, I am not concerned by the flat spots on the armoring. I suppose they show character or something. If I was concerned with resale value, then I would not use them at all, but I intend to keep these. Mine are also Japan warranty, but can't imagine shipping them back just for armor replacement.
David
perseid28
Well-known member
I was just about ready to order one of the many 8x30 E IIs currently for sale on eBay by various Japanese sellers, but this quick wearing of the armor is something I wasn't aware of. How serious/annoying is the issue, and would you still recommend an E II over any other alternative glass? I probably would not have even considered buying another binocular in such circumstances (from an overseas vendor with a non-US warranty), but from what I've heard these binoculars are very hard to beat from a price-performance standpoint.
PeterPS
Well-Known Member
In fact you can buy it from Amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/Nikon-Binocul...22399302&sr=8-3-fkmr1&keywords=nikon+eii+8x30
At the price level of 450$ I do think it is a very good buy---I have paid more for mine. I have not heard about the wearing issues until now---there are people who have used the EII for many years w/o any problems.
Peter.
http://www.amazon.com/Nikon-Binocul...22399302&sr=8-3-fkmr1&keywords=nikon+eii+8x30
At the price level of 450$ I do think it is a very good buy---I have paid more for mine. I have not heard about the wearing issues until now---there are people who have used the EII for many years w/o any problems.
Peter.
David Swain
Well-known member
I believe I am the only poster to BF to ever have noted wear on the armor, so I seriously doubt my experience is common. As I noted, I usually wear them bandolier-style (grab-and-swing). I do a lot of field work as well as recreational birding, so I suppose I put some wear on them. I don't consider small smooth spots where my right thumb and index finger rest to be objectionable. I value these as tools, not investments. Indeed, they are exceptional binoculars--real classics--but they do require some care of the all-metal housing and religious use of the rain guard in foul weather.
David
Attachments
PeterPS
Well-Known Member
David:
Thanks for posting the photos---I would not consider the wear visible in them as excessive, rather it is quite minor given your intensive use of the binos. True, many baby these binos a bit too much (myself included), which might be why reports like yours are rare.
Peter
Thanks for posting the photos---I would not consider the wear visible in them as excessive, rather it is quite minor given your intensive use of the binos. True, many baby these binos a bit too much (myself included), which might be why reports like yours are rare.
Peter
perseid28
Well-known member
Thank you for that, David. The wear doesn't look as egregious as I'd feared from your earlier post. Looks like it's time to get an E II. I actually had an 8x32 SE up until a couple months ago when I fooloshly auctioned it off. I'd convinced myself that the Bushnell Custom 7x26 would be an optical equivalent to the SE while being a lot more portable. It's a nice binocular, but no SE.
Has anyone knocked an EII out of alignment?
I've had a string of porros that were either out when I purchased them (but only lately I discovered how to check for it) or got knocked out by a fairly simple bump. I read into the use that is described here that the EII may be more robust than my general porro experience indicates. Perhaps I shouldn't be scared to use mine....
Dave
I've had a string of porros that were either out when I purchased them (but only lately I discovered how to check for it) or got knocked out by a fairly simple bump. I read into the use that is described here that the EII may be more robust than my general porro experience indicates. Perhaps I shouldn't be scared to use mine....
Dave
