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Omani Owl (1 Viewer)

maybe that bit of the new sequence read isn't 100% reliable so the substitution and resulting structural issues aren't present in real life. but as you say the high proportion of silent mutations is more than could be explained by sequencing problems alone, so there must be a genuine divergence between the type specimen and hadorami
will be interesting if any omani owl sequence is forthcoming.
cheers,
James
 
Well, the high proportion of silent mutations is not unusual for a coding gene. (Remember that the protein must remain functional. The translations of the homologous 218 bp of Asio flammeus and Bubo virginianus do not differ from Strix hadorami at all.) The problems here are the apparent non-silent mutations (two nucleotides are replaced in the concerned codon: CTC (leucine) => ACC (threonine); each substitution taken separately would have resulted in the AA ceasing to be a leucine; this AA seems to be a leucine in the cytochrome b of all other birds). The main question would be what caused this--and, most importantly, whether the rest of the sequence is correct or not. A stop-codon within the coding part of a mitochondrial gene is often interpreted as suggesting a NuMt (ie., a nuclear, non-functional copy of the gene). These two substitutions could easily be interpreted in the same way.

Of course, an observed similarity between the holotype sequence and a sequence obtained from a recent Omani Owl would be much more conclusive than an observed divergence between this holotype and a Desert Tawny Owl sequence. Similarities are much less likely to be caused by technical problems than divergences.
 
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i agree that the missense mutation with the structural consequences is worrying for such a highly conserved polypeptide.
it could be due to that copy of the gene being non-functional and thus irrelevant in terms of determining divergence between the taxa, or those polymorphisms may be absent in real-life and only there due to poor quality sequence from a difficult sample. I've seen worse miscallings on slightly ropey chromatograms.
But, my point really was that even if it's indicative of poor quality sequence we can still be fairly confident this type specimen sequence is (somewhat) divergent from hadorami in real life as ~90% of the observed polymorphisms are silent. This result cannot be completely down to poor quality sequence.

cheers,
James
 
James Lowther said:
But, my point really was that even if it's indicative of poor quality sequence we can still be fairly confident this type specimen sequence is (somewhat) divergent from hadorami in real life as ~90% of the observed polymorphisms are silent. This result cannot be completely down to poor quality sequence.
Click to expand...
Yes, with this I agree--it's certainly not random nucleotide misidentification. But if there is a significant chance that it is...:
due to that copy of the gene being non-functional and thus irrelevant in terms of determining divergence between the taxa
Click to expand...
...then a problem remains.
 
James Lowther said:
will be interesting if any omani owl sequence is forthcoming.
cheers,
James
Click to expand...

James,

Magnus Robb is speaking at the Dorset Bird Club AGM next Wednesday on the Undiscovered Owls book which is due for publication shortly, why not come along and ask him about current developments?

Ian
 
Richard Klim said:
According to The Sound Approach, Undiscovered Owls features 38 "species". How many of these are newly proposed splits (ie undiscovered species)...? ;)
Click to expand...

Here is the list of Owl forms listed as having been recorded by the SA team:

1. Northern Hawk-Owl Surnia ulula
2. Eurasian Pygmy Owl Glaucidium passerinum
3. Little Owl Athene noctua vidalii
4. Italian Owl A n noctua
5. Lilith Owl Athene glaux
6. Byzantine Little Owl A g indigena
7. Tengmalm's Owl Aegolius funereus funereus
8. Eurasian Scops Owl Otus scops
9. Cyprus Scops Owl O s cyprius
10. Pallid Scops Owl Otus brucei
11. Arabian Scops Owl Otus pamelae
12. Long-eared Owl Asio otus
13. Short-eared Owl Asio flammeus
14. Marsh Owl Asio capensis
15. Tawny Owl Strix aluco
16. Maghreb Tawny Owl S a mauritanica
17. Hume's Owl Strix butleri
18. Northern Ural Owl Strix uralensis
19. Carpathian Ural Owl S u macroura
20. Lapland Owl Strix nebulosa lapponica
21. Snowy Owl Bubo scandiacus
22. Eurasian Eagle-Owl Bubo bubo
23. Byzantine (Aharoni's) Eagle-Owl B b interpositus
24. Pharaoh Eagle-Owl Bubo ascalaphus
25. Turkish Brown Fish Owl Bubo zeylonensis semenowi
26. Arabian Spotted Eagle-Owl Bubo africanus milesi
27. Omani Owl Strix Omanensis

add Barn Owl for 28 and there are still some hidden ones (unless they are extra-limital, eg Indian Brown Fish owl, and for comparative purposes)

cheers, a
 
Undiscovered owls

Ian Lewis said:
Magnus Robb is speaking at the Dorset Bird Club AGM next Wednesday on the Undiscovered Owls book which is due for publication shortly...
Click to expand...
Richard Klim said:
According to The Sound Approach, Undiscovered Owls features 38 "species". How many of these are newly proposed splits (ie undiscovered species)...? ;)
PS. van den Berg 2014 recognises 24 owl spp in the 'Greater' WP.
Click to expand...
Due April 2015...
soundapproach.co.uk/product/undiscovered-owls/
This groundbreaking book focuses on the owls of the Western Palearctic, North Africa and the Middle East and explores the vocal ranges of 38 different species.
Click to expand...
Based upon the taxa recorded (as Alan suggested), possibly...
  1. Tyto (alba) alba – Pale Western Barn Owl
  2. Tyto (alba) guttata – Dark Western Barn Owl
  3. Tyto (alba) erlangeri – Desert Barn Owl
  4. Tyto (alba) gracilirostris – Slender-billed Barn Owl
  5. Tyto (alba) schmitzi – Madeira Barn Owl
  6. Tyto detorta – Cape Verde Barn Owl

  7. Surnia (ulula) ulula – Northern Hawk-Owl
  8. Surnia (ulula) caparoch – American Hawk-Owl
  9. Glaucidium passerinum – Eurasian Pygmy Owl
  10. Athene (noctua) noctua – Italian Owl
  11. Athene (noctua) vidalii – Little Owl
  12. Athene (glaux) glaux – Lilith Owl
  13. Athene (glaux) indigena – Byzantine Little Owl
  14. Aegolius (funereus) funereus – Tengmalm's Owl
  15. Aegolius (funereus) richardsoni – Boreal Owl
  16. Otus (scops) scops – Eurasian Scops Owl
  17. Otus (scops) cyprius – Cyprus Scops Owl
  18. Otus brucei – Pallid Scops Owl
  19. Otus pamelae – Arabian Scops Owl
  20. Asio otus – Long-eared Owl
  21. Asio flammeus – Short-eared Owl
  22. Asio capensis – Marsh Owl
  23. Strix (aluco) aluco – Tawny Owl
  24. Strix (aluco) mauritanica – Maghreb Tawny Owl
  25. Strix butleri – Hume's Owl
  26. Strix omanensis – Omani Owl
  27. Strix (uralensis) uralensis – Ural Owl
  28. Strix (uralensis) macroura – Carpathian Ural Owl
  29. Strix (nebulosa) nebulosa – Great Grey Owl
  30. Strix (nebulosa) lapponica – Lapland Owl
  31. Bubo scandiacus – Snowy Owl
  32. Bubo (bubo) bubo – Eurasian Eagle-Owl
  33. Bubo (bubo) interpositus – Byzantine Eagle-Owl
  34. Bubo ascalaphus – Pharaoh Eagle-Owl
  35. Bubo (zeylonensis) zeylonensis – Brown Fish Owl
  36. Bubo (zeylonensis) semenowi – Turkish Brown Fish Owl
  37. Bubo (africanus) africanus – Spotted Eagle-Owl
  38. Bubo (africanus) milesi – Arabian Spotted Eagle-Owl
 
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Undiscovered owls

Richard Klim said:
Based upon the taxa recorded (as Alan suggested), possibly...
Click to expand...
But, given that Arnoud is a member of The Sound Approach team, it's notable that Dark Western Barn Owl Tyto alba guttata, Desert Barn Owl T a erlangeri, Italian Owl Athene noctua noctua, Byzantine Little Owl A glaux indigena and Carpathian Ural Owl Strix uralensis macroura are no longer listed in van den Berg 2014. In earlier versions they were included as 'distinct subspecies sometimes considered specifically distinct' but have recently been downgraded (presumably to indistinct subspecies never considered specifically distinct ;)).

Btw, one WP (sensu van den Berg / Shirihai & Svensson) owl species apparently not recorded is Spotted Owlet Athene brama.
 
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Richard Klim said:
But, given that Arnoud is a member of The Sound Approach team, it's notable that Dark Western Barn Owl Tyto alba guttata, Desert Barn Owl T a erlangeri, Italian Owl Athene noctua noctua, Byzantine Little Owl A glaux indigena and Carpathian Ural Owl Strix uralensis macroura are no longer listed in van den Berg 2014. In earlier versions they were included as 'distinct subspecies sometimes considered specifically distinct' but have recently been downgraded (presumably to indistinct subspecies never considered specifically distinct ;)).

Btw, one WP (sensu van den Berg / Shirihai & Svensson) owl species apparently not recorded is Spotted Owlet Athene brama.
Click to expand...

It does say in van den Berg 2014 that "Following the publication of 'Undiscovered owls' by Robb & The Sound Approach in 2015, the systematics of owls will be updated."

Of course I am always left wondering at what point is a difference in vocalisation a regional dialect and what point does it signify a different species. I am sure that deciding that in some cases is as subjective as using other characteristics, but then at least with vocalisations you can have sonagrams to make it seem more convincing:t:

Cheers

Roy
 
A superb talk by Magnus last night down here in Dorset. The full list of species wasn't divulged but there have been interesting developments in Iran which perhaps show that Kirwan et al were a bit quick of the mark revealing their "findings".

Magnus played several sound recordings and his Ural Owl is without doubt the best and purest bird recording I have ever heard - it's just magnificent. I did also titter several times at the recordings of "owl-love" (or owl-porn as they were described). I think it was Eagle Owl that almost had me in tears, it really wasn't hard to work out what was going on :smoke:

I can't wait to get my hands on the book - and CDs.
 
Marcus Lawson said:
A superb talk by Magnus last night down here in Dorset. The full list of species wasn't divulged but there have been interesting developments in Iran which perhaps show that Kirwan et al were a bit quick of the mark revealing their "findings".
Click to expand...

wasn't their main finding that the type specimen of "hume's" was almost certainly a different species from the well-known "hume's" observed in life, as judged by genetics and morphology?

i think they were quite circumspect about how "omanensis" fitted into the puzzle, and i don't think additional discoveries in e.g. Iran and the UAE necessarily devalue what they published about the type specimen do they?

James
 
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