Opticron Aurora 8x42 vs alpha(ish) 8x42s - anything given away in optical quality? (2 Viewers)

[Canip]

also think that the A-K prism provides a kind of unique transparency or immediacy, rather like a good Porro, which even the best S-Ps cannot quite manage.

You keep writing this opinion in a number posts. With all due respect, I still don‘t believe there is any scientific explanation for that perceived effect, which I believe forms in your eyes and brain, rather than being caused by a specific prism construction.

 

[hopster]

You keep writing this opinion in a number posts. With all due respect, I still don‘t believe there is any scientific explanation for that perceived effect, which I believe forms in your eyes and brain, rather than being caused by a specific prism construction.

Well, I have had this experience consistently and so I feel able to report it and share it with others. Some here agree (including the more 'scientific' participants), some don't. I guess that is the point of a discussion to get various views on the subject?

With regard to your point about the image forming in your eyes and brain, absolutely. My day job for the last 10 years has been as a senior research fellow in computational neuroscience at a UK university and I have studied the path from the retinal cells themselves, through the various ultra-specialised neurons at the back of the eye which help to provide its remarkable dynamic range of up to 18 bits, down the optic nerve and through the layers of the visual cortex until it finally gets to neocortex. All the brain ever 'sees' is action potentials i.e. events where the illumination falling on a retinal cell has changed up or down slightly within a given time window. So the signal travelling down the optic nerve is something like the snow pattern of a detuned analogue TV except that the white dots will have spatial orientation along edges. One way that the system preserves information flow is saccades - tiny eye movements - to refresh the edges in the scene if not much is happening dynamically. From this highly abstract and digitised signal the magic starts happening in V1 and V2 to knit together the signals, correct for the overlap and the fovea, create and maintain 3D spaces with edges, shapes, colour and an allocentric orientation of the observer within that space and portray a perceived stability and solidity which is a long way from the retinal signals themselves. It's quite a remarkable magic trick and is generating a lot of research work in order to understand the underlying computations because event-based vision and computation is at the heart of the latest developments in robotics and AI for their speed and energy benefits.

 

[dries1]

Well, I have had this experience consistently and so I feel able to report it and share it with others. Some here agree (including the more 'scientific' participants), some don't. I guess that is the point of a discussion to get various views on the subject?

With regard to your point about the image forming in your eyes and brain, absolutely. My day job for the last 10 years has been as a senior research fellow in computational neuroscience at a UK university and I have studied the path from the retinal cells themselves, through the various ultra-specialised neurons at the back of the eye which help to provide its remarkable dynamic range of up to 18 bits, down the optic nerve and through the layers of the visual cortex until it finally gets to neocortex. All the brain ever 'sees' is action potentials i.e. events where the illumination falling on a retinal cell has changed up or down slightly within a given time window. So the signal travelling down the optic nerve is something like the snow pattern of a detuned analogue TV except that the white dots will have spatial orientation along edges. One way that the system preserves information flow is saccades - tiny eye movements - to refresh the edges in the scene if not much is happening dynamically. From this highly abstract and digitised signal the magic starts happening in V1 and V2 to knit together the signals, correct for the overlap and the fovea, create and maintain 3D spaces with edges, shapes, colour and an allocentric orientation of the observer within that space and portray a perceived stability and solidity which is a long way from the retinal signals themselves. It's quite a remarkable magic trick and is generating a lot of research work in order to understand the underlying computations because event-based vision and computation is at the heart of the latest developments in robotics and AI for their speed and energy benefits.

Post # 21.

 

[Paultricounty]

If we are getting our brains to see and think that AK prisms have a distinct difference to SP ,and that AK has more in common in the image as a porro , can we then dumb out brains down to see , that low priced entry level binoculars have a similar image quality to the firmest binoculars money can buy. Then we can save a lot of money.

 

[hopster]

Post # 21.

? this was a response to #21

 

[hopster]

If we are getting our brains to see and think that AK prisms have a distinct difference to SP ,and that AK has more in common in the image as a porro , can we then dumb out brains down to see , that low priced entry level binoculars have a similar image quality to the firmest binoculars money can buy. Then we can save a lot of money.

That is confusing actual experience with scripting or expectation, and of course this cuts both ways.

 

[dries1]

There has been a discussion of this AK Vs SP on Bird Forum over the years. Instead of starting over, why don't the new members read those older posts. Many of those older posts have members who own and have actually spent more time with both optical trains in binoculars, I value their opinions.

 

[Paultricounty]

That is confusing actual experience with scripting or expectation, and of course this cuts both ways.

With all due respect, not really, there are people who actually believe that their Vortex Viper or some other mid level optic is as good as an HT or the FL, read through BF. It’s their personal experience , that doesn’t mean its a fact. But they’re convinced , at least the ones that are being honest.

 

[paddyluke]

With all due respect, not really, there are people who actually believe that their Vortex Viper or some other mid level optic is as good as an HT or the FL. Read thought BF. It’s their personal experience , that doesn’t mean its a fact. But they’re convinced , at least the ones that are being honest.

and we cant be having that

 

[Paultricounty]

and we cant be having that

Correct. At least we shouldn’t have people stating things that other people might believe as a fact. Look, it’s a bird, no it’s a plane , no it’s Superman.

There a lot of people come on here to learn, and to get an idea of what might be a good choice for them. It doesn’t help when people come on here , and some with very little experience with many binoculars and say things like a Hyundai is good as a Mercedes.

 

[paddyluke]

Correct. At least we shouldn’t have people stating things that other people might believe as a fact. Look, it’s a bird, no it’s a plane , no it’s Superman.

There a lot of people come on here to learn, and to get an idea of what might be a good choice for them. It doesn’t help when people come on here , and some with very little experience with many binoculars and say things like a Hyundai is good as a Mercedes.

but you are stating that your high priced binoculars are better than others lower priced binoculars,what's wrong with others opinions,so the people who come on here to learn can see that more £££'s don't always mean better, it's just others opinions.

 

[dries1]

If ones eyes are in good order, they can see the difference. Now whether one thinks it is worth that extra $$, that is a different story.

 

[paddyluke]

If ones eyes are in good order, they can see the difference. Now whether one thinks it is worth that extra $$, that is a different story.

but this is your opinion

 

[dries1]

So you cannot see the difference, I understand now.

 

[Ted Y.]

You keep writing this opinion in a number posts. With all due respect, I still don‘t believe there is any scientific explanation for that perceived effect, which I believe forms in your eyes and brain, rather than being caused by a specific prism construction.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

As individuals, we are interested a lot in "perceived effects".

A person is beautiful because of perceived effects, not because of some technical measurements.
When you order 1 meter of beer, you buy the perceived effect of many beers, nothing to do with "1 meter".
If the AK prisms produce a better image based on "perceived effects", excellent, I will take that.

Some alpha brand offers some CA (not much, to be clear) in its binoculars and the users do not care of measurements. Very good attitude. That "some CA" do not weaken the “alpha” status.

 

[paddyluke]

So you cannot see the difference, I understand now.

never looked through a pair of the so called alpha binoculars so i wouldn't know, but others have and they have stated their opinions and their opinions get rubbished

 

[Paultricounty]

So you cannot see the difference, I understand now.

Exactly!

 

[Paultricounty]

but you are stating that your high priced binoculars are better than others lower priced binoculars,what's wrong with others opinions,so the people who come on here to learn can see that more £££'s don't always mean better, it's just others opinions.

No again! You pay for what you get, especially with Optics. . I have low, medium and high priced optics, I see the difference as do people who can recognize the difference , you obviously don’t.

What do you think is more likely , that the people here, some pretty sharp people are not seeing a difference in an optic that cost twice to three times as much? Or is it more likely that the person using the binoculars that are 1/2 of 1/3 the cost is not seeing the difference. I’m sure you’ve heard of Occam‘s razor.

 

[Paultricounty]

never looked through a pair of the so called alpha binoculars so i wouldn't know, but others have and they have stated their opinions and their opinions get rubbished

Are you kidding me, what a waste of time that was. Take care.

 

[paddyluke]

Are you kidding me, what a waste of time that was. Take care.

so you are not rubbishing others opinions, others who have tried Alpha's are lying when they gave their opinions???