Opticron MM3 and MM4 (2 Viewers)

[Auklife]

Hello there.

Is there any "real negligible" difference (optically) between the Opticron MM3 GA and the MM4 GA ED spotting scopes (mainly 50 & 60mm) with any of the 3 appropriate eyepieces. HR3, HDF and SDLv3

Your thoughts would be appreciated.

Thanks Tony

 

[Owene]

This is only from me sharing views in the field but I’d say no. I had an mm3 with sdl2 and hdf.

 

[Auklife]

This is only from me sharing views in the field but I’d say no. I had an mm3 with sdl2 and hdf.

Thanks Owene.

 

[Nick Leech]

I have recently upgraded from an MM3 ED50 with HDFT zoom to an MM4 ED50 with SDLv3 zoom. My opinion is that the IQ of the latter set up is marginally better, but the difference is quite small. The improvements are: slightly better field of view, eye relief and contrast/colour saturaton. But sharpness and image brightness are very very similar.

Leaving aside the IQ issues, the SDLv2/v3 eyepieces give you a fully waterproof set up. Whereas the HDFT zoom (on MM3 or MM4) is not fully waterproof. May be an issue for some people, and not for others.....

The MM3/HDFT set up represents better value for money. I'd only go for the MM4/SDLv3 option if you have the money and want to feel like you "have the best" in the Opticron MM line.

 

[Auklife]

I have recently upgraded from an MM3 ED50 with HDFT zoom to an MM4 ED50 with SDLv3 zoom. My opinion is that the IQ of the latter set up is marginally better, but the difference is quite small. The improvements are: slightly better field of view, eye relief and contrast/colour saturaton. But sharpness and image brightness are very very similar.

Leaving aside the IQ issues, the SDLv2/v3 eyepieces give you a fully waterproof set up. Whereas the HDFT zoom (on MM3 or MM4) is not fully waterproof. May be an issue for some people, and not for others.....

The MM3/HDFT set up represents better value for money. I'd only go for the MM4/SDLv3 option if you have the money and want to feel like you "have the best" in the Opticron MM line.

Thank you Nick

 

[Gzoladz74]

Very marginal difference with different eyepieces. No perceivable difference with the same eyepiece.

As much as I like Opticron within the segment they target, I find it difficult that even for the "measurable" improvements they claim it is not easy to find meaningful comparable information available in the same way as other manufacturers have it.

 

[Auklife]

Very marginal difference with different eyepieces. No perceivable difference with the same eyepiece.

As much as I like Opticron within the segment they target, I find it difficult that even for the "measurable" improvements they claim it is not easy to find meaningful comparable information available in the same way as other manufacturers have it.

Thank you Gzoladz74

 

[Bill Atwood]

Before the MM4 came out, it was, or there was, an MM3 GA ED model. I had both and the HDF and SDL2 zoom eyepieces. I could not find any difference between the scope bodies. The SDL2 was very, very slightly better than the HDF.

I wouldn't be surprised if the current MM4 is somewhat better than the current non-ED MM3, but have no experience with the non-ED model.

 

[Auklife]

Before the MM4 came out, it was, or there was, an MM3 GA ED model. I had both and the HDF and SDL2 zoom eyepieces. I could not find any difference between the scope bodies. The SDL2 was very, very slightly better than the HDF.

I wouldn't be surprised if the current MM$ is somewhat better than the current non-ED MM3, but have no experience with the non-ED model.

Thank you Bill

 

[Nivado]

I compared my own MM3 50 ED SDLv2 to an MM4 60 ED SDLv3 some time ago and beside the higher zoom range of the 60, the only real difference that I thought I could see was that in de MM4 SDLv3 de colourfidelty was slightly cooler and seemed to me a little more naturel. In terms of Sharpness and contrast I couldn't see any difference in that short time comparing them so I just kept the MM3 ED instead of 'upgrading' to the MM4 ED.

 

[Auklife]

I compared my own MM3 50 ED SDLv2 to an MM4 60 ED SDLv3 some time ago and beside the higher zoom range of the 60, the only real difference that I thought I could see was that in de MM4 SDLv3 de colourfidelty was slightly cooler and seemed to me a little more naturel. In terms of Sharpness and contrast I couldn't see any difference in that short time comparing them so I just kept the MM3 ED instead of 'upgrading' to the MM4 ED.

Thank you Nivado

 

[jring]

Hi,

it should be noted that the original poster asked for a comparison between the plain glass current MM3 50 model vs. the MM4 ED. All of the zoom EPs mentioned will be operating at the limit of useful magnification of the plain glass MM3. Expect the view to get a bit softer at 36x (SDL or HDF) or 39x (HR3).

I would prefer a 25x or 30x wide for the plain glass MM3, unfortunately there is none in the current Opticron EP lineup. Closest would be part number 40931 from the HR line which is only 20x.

Joachim

 

[Nick Leech]

it should be noted that the original poster asked for a comparison between the plain glass current MM3 50 model vs. the MM4 ED

Yes, I hadn't picked up on that. Opticron only sells the MM3 in the non-ED form these days. I'd expect the MM4 ED version to out perform it a bit.

My advice to the OP would be to pick up a second hand MM3 ED version and I wouldn't worry too much which zoom eyepiece came with it. They are all pretty close.

 

[Auklife]

Hi,

it should be noted that the original poster asked for a comparison between the plain glass current MM3 50 model vs. the MM4 ED. All of the zoom EPs mentioned will be operating at the limit of useful magnification of the plain glass MM3. Expect the view to get a bit softer at 36x (SDL or HDF) or 39x (HR3).

I would prefer a 25x or 30x wide for the plain glass MM3, unfortunately there is none in the current Opticron EP lineup. Closest would be part number 40931 from the HR line which is only 20x.

Joachim

Hi,

it should be noted that the original poster asked for a comparison between the plain glass current MM3 50 model vs. the MM4 ED. All of the zoom EPs mentioned will be operating at the limit of useful magnification of the plain glass MM3. Expect the view to get a bit softer at 36x (SDL or HDF) or 39x (HR3).

I would prefer a 25x or 30x wide for the plain glass MM3, unfortunately there is none in the current Opticron EP lineup. Closest would be part number 40931 from the HR line which is only 20x.

Joachim

Thank you Joachin.

 

[Auklife]

Thank you for all your splendid input, I was trying to establish between the later models after 2017. MM3 GA 50mm, MM3 GA 60mm against the MM4 GA ED 50mm and the MM4 GA ED 60mm with the appropriate eyepieces HR3, HDF and SDLv3. Do you think personally there is any 'real' difference in the image quality.

Thank you all for your time.

 

[jring]

Do you think personally there is any 'real' difference in the image quality.

Hi,

I would expect the difference between an MM3 and MM4 ED of the same aperture at max magnification of whatever zoom you choose to be visible in a side by side comparison.
At 50mm aperture and 36 or 39x it will be less pronounced, at 45x or 48x with the 60mm aperture bodies I would expect the image to get quite visibly soft with the MM3. At 60x it would be not really usable.

I once met a lady on a twitch who had the plain glass version Kowa TSN-1 of my fluorite TSN-3. She also had the infamous 80s vintage old Kowa 20-60 zoom which is very narrow at anything below close to 60 and not really sharp at 60 even in a cherry fluorite body.
She complained quite a bit about it and rightfully so. I lent her my spare 30x wide EP and the great view was a revelation for her - we later also tried my SDLv2 on the TSN-1 and the 54x view (the maximum magnification of the adapted SDL on Kowas single-digit TSN bodies) was quite visibly soft and showed no more detail than the 30x wide. On my cherry TSN-3 the SDLv2 is very sharp at 54x.

Joachim

 

[Auklife]

Hi,

I would expect the difference between an MM3 and MM4 ED of the same aperture at max magnification of whatever zoom you choose to be visible in a side by side comparison.
At 50mm aperture and 36 or 39x it will be less pronounced, at 45x or 48x with the 60mm aperture bodies I would expect the image to get quite visibly soft with the MM3. At 60x it would be not really usable.

I once met a lady on a twitch who had the plain glass version Kowa TSN-1 of my fluorite TSN-3. She also had the infamous 80s vintage old Kowa 20-60 zoom which is very narrow at anything below close to 60 and not really sharp at 60 even in a cherry fluorite body.
She complained quite a bit about it and rightfully so. I lent her my spare 30x wide EP and the great view was a revelation for her - we later also tried my SDLv2 on the TSN-1 and the 54x view (the maximum magnification of the adapted SDL on Kowas single-digit TSN bodies) was quite visibly soft and showed no more detail than the 30x wide. On my cherry TSN-3 the SDLv2 is very sharp at 54x.

Joachim

Thank you again Joachim, that is interesting