Plovers - Oman Masirah (1 Viewer)

[kahraba]

Hello,
I would appreciate opinions about these plovers seen recently (oct 31/nov 1) on Masirah Island, Oman.
photos #2 and #3 are of two different birds seen together, #4 and #5 are of the same bird.

I believe 1-3 are Pacific and 4-5 Golden but I have some doubts left...

 

[THE_FERN]

Doubtless I'm wrong, but these all look like grey plover to me. Many have quite long and heavy bills, all have little yellow notches to the mantle/wing feathers rather than more extensive blotches, and the "bars" on the long wing feathers look coarse.

 

[kahraba]

Thank you The Fern, you may as well be right.
Bills looked a bit weak to me here for Grey plover (esp. on the last bird) and I have seen greyer ones but they are birds that is see quite rarely.

 

[antbird53]

Thank you The Fern, you may as well be right.
Bills looked a bit weak to me here for Grey plover (esp. on the last bird) and I have seen greyer ones but they are birds that is see quite rarely.

Personally I'd say the last two images are of Pacific Golden Plover. More delicate than Grey Plover, with finer bill, and generally more golden tone to upperparts. Long tibia, long tertials (cf European Golden Plover), but I stand to be corrected!

 

[smiths]

All of these images show Pacific Golden Plover.

 

[Butty]

...because...?

 

[Earnest lad]

Hello,
I would appreciate opinions about these plovers seen recently (oct 31/nov 1) on Masirah Island, Oman.
photos #2 and #3 are of two different birds seen together, #4 and #5 are of the same bird.
View attachment 1479115View attachment 1479116View attachment 1479117View attachment 1479118View attachment 1479119
I believe 1-3 are Pacific and 4-5 Golden but I have some doubts left...

4 and 5 seem to have a lot of tibia for a Eurasian GP

 

[smiths]

...because...?

Here you go:

 

[THE_FERN]

Here you go: View attachment 1479372

Well I think this is a bit too do with interpretation. The last 2, more golden images were better fits to a golden plover for me but the body shape is squat and rounded just like the image above (in other respects I don't think the grey plover shown is the right comparison for these birds). In my experience you can have thinnish-billed grey plovers. However, here all have thicker bills (and bases) than I'd expect for a golden

 

[Butty]

Here you go...

Ta. All pretty vague/subjective stuff then ☹️

 

[antbird53]

Well I think this is a bit too do with interpretation. The last 2, more golden images were better fits to a golden plover for me but the body shape is squat and rounded just like the image above (in other respects I don't think the grey plover shown is the right comparison for these birds). In my experience you can have thinnish-billed grey plovers. However, here all have thicker bills (and bases) than I'd expect for a golden

Per the Advanced Bird ID Handbook, "Long tertials often nearly reaching tail-tip" is a distinction from both AGP and EGP. Seems clear to me in those last two images.

 

[kahraba]

Per the Advanced Bird ID Handbook, "Long tertials often nearly reaching tail-tip" is a distinction from both AGP and EGP. Seems clear to me in those last two images.

I tend to agree.
Another thing weighing against Grey Plover on the last bird, from the same book : "Small hind toe <=> in other similar plovers absent".
Despite a few pics with views of the feet (including #5 above) I was unable to see the faintest hind toe on that bird, which should rule out Grey.

Anyway, thank you all for the passionate debate here ! I was hoping for someone to be able to ID these birds with certainty but as Butty notes, all the criteria require a certain dose of interpretation.

By the way... these birds may have been flying without me looking... Was I busy with a White-tailed Plover or a Small Pratincole then ? 🙃

 

[smiths]

Ta. All pretty vague/subjective stuff then ☹️

I would respectfully disagree.
No offence etc., but there is nothing vague about:

1. unmarked white vent versus spotted vent
2. White tail vs brown tail

In addition, note also the difference in the pattern of the underparts (longitudinal streaking in juv. Grey, barred/spotted pattern in both OP birds), the length of the primary projection and the tertial length in relation to tail tip.
Pretty clear that these are not Grey plovers.
Eurasian golden is easily ruled out on bill shape alone (+ a number of other differences).

 

[Butty]

Indeed, no offence taken 👍🏻 - though It's clear from reactions here that 'vague/subjective' demonstrably hits the spot for some.
The spotted/not-spotted vent thing isn't borne out by the photos.
The barred tail v. brown tail is liable to be (as in some photos here) lost in the typical undecipherability of undertail-coverts/tail/tertials/primaries at the back end of a wader - and some photos here show the clear possibility of a barred tail depending on which bits you think are which.
Streaky v. barry underparts is good. 👍🏻
Rear-end relativities of grey plover and Pacific golden plover are surely rather similar.

 

[Valéry Schollaert]

Smiths demonstrated why they are Pacific G. P., I can just add that I fully agree. A common bird in Oman.

 

[kahraba]

Thank you all ! My inital thoughts were not too wrong then. I believe that I did not see any Grey or EG Plover during the trip.

 

[Alexander Stöhr]

Hello,
thanks from me too! "Still no thank you-Button" came into my mind again, so I use the regular ones.

 

[smiths]

The spotted/not-spotted vent thing isn't borne out by the photos.

?
In all 5 photographs the vent (i.e., the area behind the legs) shows extensive brown markings.
I don't know why you keep knocking down useful criteria like this but anyway, they work for me.

 

[Butty]

I don't know why you keep saying things that aren't born out by the photos - but thanks for explaining your features.

 

[THE_FERN]

?
In all 5 photographs the vent (i.e., the area behind the legs) shows extensive brown markings.
I don't know why you keep knocking down useful criteria like this but anyway, they work for me.

Have to admit I don't see this either. Ahead of the vent area in some cases I see some faint brown streaks, but I see white in the vent area itself---in all cases