Rallidae (2 Viewers)

[Jim LeNomenclatoriste]

The debate whether Pareudiastes is a valid genus or not is also a neverending story. IOC has never accepted it though Storrs Olson discussed in the 1970s that there are differences between Pareudiastes and Gallinula.

Do we know their position in the Rallidae tree?

 

[Melanie]

Olson wrote in 1975:

The South Pacific Gallinules of the Genus Pareudiastes​

Storrs L Olson
Published in The Wilson Bulletin, in 1975, in volume 87, issue 1, pages 1-5

The South Pacific Gallinules of the Genus Pareudiastes

Published in The Wilson Bulletin, in 1975, in volume 87, issue 1, pages 1-5

biostor.org

The genus Pareudiastes might therefore be regarded as a relict group occupying a position that is morphologically and perhaps phylogenetically intermediate between Gallinula and Porphyrio.

Until now I've found no current study that explains why Pareudiastes is a synonym of Gallinula.

 

[Xenospiza]

Do we know their position in the Rallidae tree?

The only attempt at genetic analysis (of the Samoan Moorhen) failed: https://academic.oup.com/auk/article/138/4/ukab042/6322858?login=false

 

[Jim LeNomenclatoriste]

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/zsc.12595

Lot of changes in Laterallini

If anyone can download it

 

[Jacana]

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/zsc.12595

Lot of changes in Laterallini

If anyone can download it

As an aside: please can you post a fuller citation when you find a new paper? It makes it easier to search threads.

Depino, E. A., Pérez-Emán, J. L., Bonaccorso, E., & Areta, J. I. (2023). Evolutionary history of New World crakes (Aves: Rallidae) with emphasis on the tribe Laterallini. Zoologica Scripta, 00, 1– 19. https://doi.org/10.1111/zsc.12595

 

[Jim LeNomenclatoriste]

As an aside: please can you post a fuller citation when you find a new paper? It makes it easier to search threads.

Depino, E. A., Pérez-Emán, J. L., Bonaccorso, E., & Areta, J. I. (2023). Evolutionary history of New World crakes (Aves: Rallidae) with emphasis on the tribe Laterallini. Zoologica Scripta, 00, 1– 19. https://doi.org/10.1111/zsc.12595

Oops yes

 

[cajanuma]

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/zsc.12595

Lot of changes in Laterallini

If anyone can download it

It's available here:

https://nachoareta.files.wordpress.com/2023/04/depino-et-al-2023-new-world-crakes-phylogeny-zool-scripta-eol.pdf

 

[Jim LeNomenclatoriste]

It's available here:

https://nachoareta.files.wordpress.com/2023/04/depino-et-al-2023-new-world-crakes-phylogeny-zool-scripta-eol.pdf

Thanks

Ok, so, three new genera seem to be necessary, although Coturnicops notatus should be placed in Creciscus

 

[Mysticete]

Also, some support for lumping Rusty-flanked and Rufous-sided Crakes, and splitting up the Black Rail complex, or at least recognizing the Junin Rail as a distinct species.

 

[Xenospiza]

Also, some support for lumping Rusty-flanked and Rufous-sided Crakes, and splitting up the Black Rail complex, or at least recognizing the Junin Rail as a distinct species.

No samples of other South American "Black Rails", so tuerosi could well still be part of salinasi.

 

[Mysticete]

No samples of other South American "Black Rails", so tuerosi could well still be part of salinasi.

Yes, the authors do state that more sampling is needed.

 

[gusasp]

What's with the Yellow Rail nested in Swinhoe's? Sample issues?

 

[mb1848]

Im hoping that Jim LeNomenclatoriste will know as he read Google Scholar . which discussed Yellow Rail as evidenced by:
Proposition d'une nouvelle classification de la famille des Rallidés (râles, foulques, gallinules, etc.) | Ornithomedia.com .

​

 

[Jim LeNomenclatoriste]

Im hoping that Jim LeNomenclatoriste will know as he read Google Scholar . which discussed Yellow Rail as evidenced by:
Proposition d'une nouvelle classification de la famille des Rallidés (râles, foulques, gallinules, etc.) | Ornithomedia.com .

​

Thanks to share my article MB 😁 Obviously, I had to summarize the classification of this family with the studies already published, and I'm too lazy to ask David to edit the article to include the new study (a lot of "to" in this sentence)

 

[mb1848]

Amaurornis phoenicurus leucocephalus Abdulali, 1964 (Gruiformes: Rallidae) from Car Nicobar Island, Bay of Bengal, India is a valid subspecies​

Amaurornis phoenicurus leucocephalus Abdulali, 1964 (Gruiformes: Rallidae) from Car Nicobar Island, Bay of Bengal, India is a valid subspecies | Zootaxa .
https://www.biodiversitylibrary.org/partpdf/151883 .
IOC 13.2 lists this subspecies citing Abdulali 1979 as source.
The Birds of Great and Car Nicobars with Some Notes on Wildlife Conservation in the Islands : H Abdulali : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive . And accept based on Taylor 1996 and Rasmussen Anderton 2012.

 

[Melanie]

Are there any news about the Great Nicobar Crake or is this just a synonym for another rail?

​

New bird found in India

Discovery in Nicobar second since Independence

web.archive.org

Rajeshkumar, Ragunathan & Rasmussen 2012. An apparently new species of Rallina crake from Great Nicobar Island, India. BirdingASIA 17: 44–46.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/269703309_An_apparently_new_species_of_Rallina_crake_from_Great_Nicobar_Island_India_BirdingASIA_17_44-46

 

[Melanie]

The provenance of the only known egg of the extinct Tristan Moorhen Gallinula nesiotis

Abstract

Tristan Moorhen Gallinula nesiotis is a rail from Tristan da Cunha in the South Atlantic Ocean that probably went extinct around 1874. Here, we describe the only known egg of the species, its history, and confusion surrounding its attribution. It was probably collected by (or given to) Revd. W. F. Taylor sometime between 1851 and 1856, shipped aboard HMS Frolic in 1856, and presented as a gift to Lady Eliza Lucy Grey, wife of Cape Colony Governor Sir George Grey.

https://bioone.org/journals/bulletin-of-the-british-ornithologists-club/volume-143/issue-3/bboc.v143i3.2023.a8/The-provenance-of-the-only-known-egg-of-the-extinct/10.25226/bboc.v143i3.2023.a8.full

 

[Jim LeNomenclatoriste]

Surely not that long. ~6-9,000 yrs iirc.

Refresh of an old comment, but , 6-9,000 is based on what ?

 

[Jim LeNomenclatoriste]

The figure below comes from this article (see also this topic Thread 'Ancient mitogenomes of takahē and moho' Ancient mitogenomes of takahē and moho ). How should the number in front of each node be interpreted? Is there support for recognition of Ionornis Reichenbach, 1853 (or Glaucestes ibid.) ?

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/mec.17227

 

[Mysticete]

What does the figure caption say?