Review of 8x25 Victory Pocket (6 Viewers)

[Kevin Conville]

Fair enough Lee, I can't argue with that.

My uses are somewhat different as I often am on a motorcycle, sometimes a bicycle.

When I go to my favorite patch, after getting out the bins and my spotter or camera with long lens, I bungee the cases down to the rack. This collapses the case(s) and indicates they are empty. Letting passersby know there's nothing to see here. The same goes for when I'm traveling by car as I can leave the case open or set something on it showing it is empty.

Compactness is of value to me as well and the case(s) I described are smaller both with and without bins inside.

The case I described also doesn't require one to find space within the case to accommodate the strap. The strap can't find it's way to a lens surface (if caps aren't utilized) and conduct some nefarious mission. This is particularly aggravated if one adopts a neoprene (which I dislike immensely) strap, for it's added bulk.

But, I see your point as well.

 

[Troubador]

Same here Kevin. We used to travel by motorcycle too (BMW R60 then R90) and even with a rack, panniers and tank-top bag (see pic) space was at a premium and we swapped bulky porros for slimmer roofs for exactly this reason so I definitely understand your concern and priorities.

And going back to the lack of a rainguard for the Pockets, if Zeiss had provided one then they would have needed to supply a bigger case.......


Lee

 

[Kevin Conville]

Lee,

Ah! A slash 5!
I had an R75/5 that I bought new in 1974 and had it until 2005. I also had a 1964 R50 for several years. Dirt bikes, sport bikes, street bikes, and now two dual sports and a Vespa GTS. I still love motorcycles. In Southern California it doesn't take as much dedication as it does in your part of the world, thankfully.

 

[Troubador]

Kev

Actually the Nurburgring Green R60 had the later switch gear and was a /6. The R90 which we bought later was a /5 and actually wasn't quite as sweet a bike although it had loads of grunt.

Ride safely and have a great Christmas.

Lee

 

[paddy7]

One little update on the Pocket; i had an opportunity to go to a local estuary this morning for a little air (after 20 hours of rain yesterday) and managed - in my most CA-inducing conditions - to get some at around the last 15% of the field, when looking at dark, bare branches against a grey but brightish sky.
So - more than the 8x32FL, but nothing disruptive, and i had to work for it.
On the 'travelling with case' front, they fit in a LowePro Dashpoint 20, which can hang on your belt if you're on a bike (pedal version in my case) - i'll be the one shouting 'Get a horse!' when you motorised boys speed past me.

 

[temmie]

I have the bin. Since a week. Really nice. Good strap. Case...? Sitting in the box. I never use a case. Rainguard could be handy, but that’s my only critique. Price: 599,- in a German photo store online. A more thorough comparison with Zeiss t fl 7x42 later in January... and again: the strap and the case are a non issue.

 

[jremmons]

Temmie: optically these little binoculars are amazing. The strap is usable but I just feel it is a little overdone for such a lightweight pair of binoculars. The case annoys me because the binoculars have to be readjusted before being placed back in. The Opticron rainguard I bought works, but is a bit stiff so if makes it hard to put back on when the bins are set to anything other than max IPD.
I think these compare very favorably to the full size Victory models and really the only noteable aberrations are in that last 10-15% of the view that I don't tend to stare at, but instead use to pick up motion of birds outside of my center of view.

 

[Alexis Powell]

Case review

Since discussion has returned in earnest to cases, I'll point out to anyone who missed it that I posted photos of the Zeiss 8x25 Victory, Leica 8x20 BL, and Zeiss 8x32 FL, with my favorite straps for each, alongside and in my favorite cases in post #41. I'll attach the images to this message (below) for convenience, but here's a link to the original message for anyone interested in my comments, including mass measurements. https://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=359737&page=2

I like super compact cases that simply protect the bins from dust and scratches. In all my travels and rough adventures, I've never had need for crush-proof cases. Some of my favorite cases are the soft leather ones with zippers (so they tightly seal against sand and dust) and hard bottom (so objective caps aren't necessary to protect the objectives from contact with anything when cased), as were provided by Leica and Zeiss. Leather isn't the greatest in perpetually wet conditions, so I also have some cordura cases set up similarly, but those old leather cases were quite smart and were exemplary for their well-considered minimalist functional design. The leather case for the Zeiss 7x42 BGATP is my favorite case for the Swarovski 8.5x42 EL SV. The case for the Leica 8x32 BN is my favorite for the Zeiss 8x32 FL (as pictured below). It has snaps to make it easy to either put the strap within the case, or else use it externally with the cased bin.

...Compactness is of value to me as well and the case(s) I described are smaller both with and without bins inside.

The case I described also doesn't require one to find space within the case to accommodate the strap. The strap can't find it's way to a lens surface (if caps aren't utilized) and conduct some nefarious mission. This is particularly aggravated if one adopts a neoprene (which I dislike immensely) strap, for it's added bulk...

I like compact cases too, but I am a great lover of neoprene straps (especially the Op/Tech Fashion Strap-Bino version, which is no longer available) on 2/3 and full-sized bins, and I've never found it difficult to find room for them in even very tight-fitting cases. I fold the strap in quarters and fit it between the binocular barrels. For example, I don't think that there is a tighter-fitting case for the the Zeiss FL than the Leica 8x32 BN case that I use, but I manage to fit the bin, rainguard, and neoprene strap, without anything askew or bulging awkwardly (see below).

--AP

 

[temmie]

I appreciate the very thorough and detailed reviews of these bins; this is actually the first bin I bought without viewing through them!
And while the comments about the case make sense (there is room for improvement), I still feel too much attention is going to the accessories, and not to the bin.
One ‘awkward’ feeling I have though, is the ‘made in japan’.
This makes me think that binoculars are probably not that difficult to design and fabricage (if Zeiss can outsource such a performing bin)...I actually wonder if you can design binoculars just from the drawing table, and get the optical outcome through some kind of simulation software that will give you the visual outcome in terms of edge sharpness, fov, pincushion, % transmission, CA etcetera when you tweak the design with eg some hoya glass with some different coating instead of eg schott glass and so on. It seems this binocular was on the shelf and didn’t take any revolutionaire in terms of new materials , coatings, optical design,... they just had to do some discussions with the factory where to source the materials and how to set the price. Or not?

 

[Troubador]

There are certainly software packages that facilitate the development of optical trains in the virtual world and yes, you can vary the lenses, prisms, and glass types and get a pretty good idea of the resulting performance. But this needs verifying by building prototypes (and then possibly tweaking some details in real life to achieve the desired performance) and then the ability to reliably produce this to conform with the required tolerances needs to be established. And just as you can do all this in conjunction with your own manufacturing facility, you can do it in cooperation with somebody else's.

Lee

 

[Vespobuteo]

There are certainly software packages that facilitate the development of optical trains in the virtual world and yes, you can vary the lenses, prisms, and glass types and get a pretty good idea of the resulting performance. But this needs verifying by building prototypes (and then possibly tweaking some details in real life to achieve the desired performance) and then the ability to reliably produce this to conform with the required tolerances needs to be established. And just as you can do all this in conjunction with your own manufacturing facility, you can do it in cooperation with somebody else's.

Lee

Tools like Nikon's "OPTIA" are probably more common today, should speed up R&D quite a bit,
as you don't need to build prototypes.

"The image simulator (software) developed alongside OPTIA enables simulation at the design stage that is equivalent to actual photography with lens prototypes. "

https://www.nikon.com/news/2013/0917_optia_02.htm

Must be handy, especially for modern zoom lenses where the number of elements can be 20-30 in total.
Wonder what Zeiss used when developing the Harpia, since it's a rather complex design.

 

[MandoBear]

Same here Kevin. We used to travel by motorcycle too (BMW R60 then R90) and even with a rack, panniers and tank-top bag (see pic) space was at a premium and we swapped bulky porros for slimmer roofs for exactly this reason so I definitely understand your concern and priorities.

Lee

Such a beautiful bike, Lee. Always had a soft spot for those 70s BeeEmVays.

 

[Troubador]

Such a beautiful bike, Lee. Always had a soft spot for those 70s BeeEmVays.

Yes we loved it to bits and always cheer when we see one which rarely.

Lee

 

[ailevin]

For Those Observing Without Glasses

Santa brought me an interesting addition to the Zeiss 8x25 yesterday. It was a pair of Field Optics compact winged eye shields. I found that these really helped with both eye placement and reducing reflection from behind and the sides on the Maven B3 8x30. While these are not serious problems for the Zeiss, it is nice to have that extra shielding, but much more important, the eye shields themselves increase the diameter of the eyecups just enough so that they are a near perfect fit for my eyes without glasses. Before adding the shields, the eyecup outer diameter was 32mm, but with the eyecups it is more like 39mm. For comparison, the eyecups on the SF 8x42 are 40mm and the eyecups on the Sightron 8x32 are 28mm. Even with the wings folded down to the sides these shields really improve the ergonomics of the binocular. There is also still plenty of nose relief (distance between to two eyecups when set for my IPD) at 19mm.

Alan

 

[cfranchi]

Has someone compared the pocket with the new Swaro CL companion 8x30 ?

 

[aCuria]

Has someone compared the pocket with the new Swaro CL companion 8x30 ?

I have compared them before. Ignoring price and physical size requirements, the cl companion 8x30 was the better bin for me. It felt more substantial and due to the larger size, and was somewhat was easier to use.

For example the cl companion’s focus wheel is larger and thus easier to get a grip on, and the metal eyecups had more intermediate positions. Overall the physical build quality felt significantly better on the Swarovski.

On the other hand the 8x25 pocket is significantly smaller than the Cl companion, these things are not in the same size class at all especially in terms of length. I would be comfortable putting the 8x25 into a pocket, but the cl is skittle big for that

The cl does have some flaws in my mind:

Firstly while slightly smaller (barrel is thinner) it is still almost the same dimensions as the 8x32el. If I had both the cl and el, I would bring the el out every time, they fill the same niche

The field of view could be better on the cl, it’s noticibly smaller than the 8x32el (and the 8x30 mhg which I have not tried)

The diopter control is a pain on the cl compared to the el. I don’t really change the diopter from the default position but if you need to its not as smooth as the el

It’s not hard to choose between the cl companion and the Zeiss pocket. If the cl is too big get the pocket, otherwise get the cl companions.

 

[Troubador]

I have compared them before. Ignoring price and physical size requirements, the cl companion 8x30 was the better bin for me. It felt more substantial and due to the larger size, and was somewhat was easier to use.

For example the cl companion’s focus wheel is larger and thus easier to get a grip on, and the metal eyecups had more intermediate positions. Overall the physical build quality felt significantly better on the Swarovski.

On the other hand the 8x25 pocket is significantly smaller than the Cl companion, these things are not in the same size class at all especially in terms of length. I would be comfortable putting the 8x25 into a pocket, but the cl is skittle big for that

The cl does have some flaws in my mind:

Firstly while slightly smaller (barrel is thinner) it is still almost the same dimensions as the 8x32el. If I had both the cl and el, I would bring the el out every time, they fill the same niche

The field of view could be better on the cl, it’s noticibly smaller than the 8x32el (and the 8x30 mhg which I have not tried)

The diopter control is a pain on the cl compared to the el. I don’t really change the diopter from the default position but if you need to its not as smooth as the el

It’s not hard to choose between the cl companion and the Zeiss pocket. If the cl is too big get the pocket, otherwise get the cl companions.

Agreed except in the UK:
CL £839
Vic Pocket £544
and in USA:
CL $1190
Vic Pocket $750

Folding binos don't suit everybody, thats for sure, but there is an attractive price difference there.

Lee

 

[cfranchi]

I have compared them before. Ignoring price and physical size requirements, the cl companion 8x30 was the better bin for me. It felt more substantial and due to the larger size, and was somewhat was easier to use.

For example the cl companion’s focus wheel is larger and thus easier to get a grip on, and the metal eyecups had more intermediate positions. Overall the physical build quality felt significantly better on the Swarovski.

On the other hand the 8x25 pocket is significantly smaller than the Cl companion, these things are not in the same size class at all especially in terms of length. I would be comfortable putting the 8x25 into a pocket, but the cl is skittle big for that

The cl does have some flaws in my mind:

Firstly while slightly smaller (barrel is thinner) it is still almost the same dimensions as the 8x32el. If I had both the cl and el, I would bring the el out every time, they fill the same niche

The field of view could be better on the cl, it’s noticibly smaller than the 8x32el (and the 8x30 mhg which I have not tried)

The diopter control is a pain on the cl compared to the el. I don’t really change the diopter from the default position but if you need to its not as smooth as the el

It’s not hard to choose between the cl companion and the Zeiss pocket. If the cl is too big get the pocket, otherwise get the cl companions.

Thank you for the comparison

In term of ease of view which one is better?
Also for flare/glare resistance, which one is better?

 

[aCuria]

Thank you for the comparison

In term of ease of view which one is better?
Also for flare/glare resistance, which one is better?

I would give the CL an edge in ease of view, it does have the advantage of larger objectives (30mm vs 25mm) and a design that specifically optimizes for ease of view. I understand the Zeiss pocket has good ease of view for a 8x25, but I have not tried enough 8x25s to comment. Either way, i did not have a problem using either of them with glasses.

As for flare resistance, I would have to bring them out for a day or so to be sure, rather than just testing them in the shop. I did not see significant flare in either when I tried them out. Maybe someone else can comment on this

 

[dminor]

Has someone compared the pocket with the new Swaro CL companion 8x30 ?

I've been following this thread with quite a bit of interest as I was considering getting something lighter and easier to carry than my usual 10x42s. My local store does not have the Victory Pockets, but they do have both the Swarovski CL 8x25s and the Companion 8x30, so I was able to compare them.

I don't wear eyeglasses and I occasionally did get blackouts by placing the 8x25s too far into my eye sockets, but I think with enough use, the correct placement would come naturally. What I found really concerning was that I was unable to hold the 8x25s steady, the shake was much worse than what I get with my 10x42s. I didn't have problems with the 8x30s, I guess the larger size and extra weight helped me there.

Sorry to jump into a thread, especially when I haven't even tried the binoculars in question, but I thought it worth mentioning since I had not expected to encounter problems with shake in a small binocular. I think the best advice on this forum is to try binoculars in person if at all possible.