RSPB et al. Windfarm Petition (1 Viewer)

[Edward woodwood]

Hold the horses Colin...!

I, too, had a lot of input in the original wording despite not being all that anti wind farm (!) as it's good when people get together and decide to do something positive to change things, whether it be wind farms, deforestation or whatever... I hoped it would lead to more.

Let's get this sent pronto or will be a very sad indictment of our will to change things. One person should not be able to hold it up.

If it's a problem, i'll do the sending...

Tim

 

[nirofo]

That last post was quite extraordinary in tone from the author of the petition!

I had suspected for sometime that this was being held up by MD Nirofo.

This is very depressing and does no service at all to the thousand honest folk who signed in good faith.They did so on the basis of a petition constructed & debated at length on this Forum.
If I remember correctly Mark expressed reservations about the wording!
How in hell does he now get to decide what happens to it & when?
Why do you "need" MD's go-ahead David?-it's your & our petition!

Like you Nirofo I admire Mark for his hard work on this issue.

But to be told in this terse manner that we must wait on the word of someone who was not involved in it's construction, and who is not in a position to explain his thinking on this Forum, is a bleeding insult.

I have lost interest in it.

Colin

I too think think the response to be quite astounding, I'm beginning to think that this petition is just being held up for whatever reason, it's getting to the stage where it will be too little too late.

Since the petition was first begun almost 6 months ago now, the political climate has changed, we are now seeing the government pushing for re-newable energy at any cost, if we don't get in there soon it will be too late!!!

nirofo.

 

[James Lowther]

is this for real???
I signed this petition precisely because I felt it was reasoned, balanced and logical, exactly the qualities I'm afraid I found completely lacking in Mark Duchamp, for all his undeniable hard work and passion. I don't like to think of my signature, along with the 1000+ others languishing on his say-so to be frank....
If David feels unable for whatever reason to follow this through, maybe Tim (or someone else) should send it off?...

 

[turkish van]

Oooh, I feel a rebellion coming on here....

I'm in

 

[Tyke]

Fair enough Tim!
Agree with you James-but just before we rush into anything there are three factors to be considered:-
First-the petition is to go to the eight organisations mentioned in it. We need email addresses for each ( A Google or two should find them)-but also named addressees who are relevant-partic at SE & SNH.
Second-David says that signatures have been collected by hand in Scotland=how do we get that list?
Third-David offered to add the Proact 800 names list. Is he happy that this is done by anyone other than himself.

THe answer to this is for David to proceed as was intended=adding the extra names & sending it with the Proact credibility attached. I propose he does this asap. I am happy to try hunt down any addressees he is missing.

Colin

 

[Osprey_watcher]

is this for real???
I signed this petition precisely because I felt it was reasoned, balanced and logical, exactly the qualities I'm afraid I found completely lacking in Mark Duchamp, for all his undeniable hard work and passion. I don't like to think of my signature, along with the 1000+ others languishing on his say-so to be frank....
If David feels unable for whatever reason to follow this through, maybe Tim (or someone else) should send it off?...

Totally agree James.
To be honest if I thought MD had anything to do with it I would have avoided it like the plague.

 

[dbradnum]

I signed this petition precisely because I felt it was reasoned, balanced and logical, exactly the qualities I'm afraid I found completely lacking in Mark Duchamp, for all his undeniable hard work and passion. I don't like to think of my signature, along with the 1000+ others languishing on his say-so to be frank....
If David feels unable for whatever reason to follow this through, maybe Tim (or someone else) should send it off?...

Agree completely. The petition has little remaining momentum, so let's get it sent as soon as possible, as intended.

It would be a great shame if the many Proact members couldn't be added as well, though.... if this does turn out to be the case, then I'm afraid the efficacy of that organisation falls in my estimation. David, I don't quite understand where your enthusiasm seems to have disappeared to?

 

[Jos Stratford]

Then send it off yourself - no skin off my nose.....I am not, and never have been, a prolific poster on this forum.

What kind of attitude is this?

David, a lot of people put effort into this petition, both in its creation and promotion. A thousand people and more have signed it, giving their support to the cause and entrusting it would be sent.

If something has now changed in your views, that is up to you, but I simply don't understand your attitude here, to the very people who supported your cause and were happy to be involved.

 

[deborah4]

Can someone please explain to me what is going on here??? David is there any reason why this petition has not been forwarded? (Other than you wanted more signatories)-

You and I both know who initiated getting a BF drafted petition together (I might add after months of endless debate, in part due to conflicts between Marc Duchamp and other BF members, in which nothing was being acheived) and those who (subject at the time to your 'willingness' to run with it) bowed down to your greater experience in drafting online petitions.

In good faith, members of this forum participated in the drafting, and in good faith, signed it, in the belief it would be forwarded at a time when the RSPB was under pressure from other quarters to respond more radically to a number of windfarm applications being proposed for Scotland. If I sound angry, it's because I am - to find out after all this time that it still has not been presented as agreed is very very disappointing.

Can I suggest that the signatories collated thus far, be forwarded immediately and the campaign continue, with your Petition on-line David, and further pages be presented periodically. There are enough signatories for an initial 'stat dose' of protest, further signatures will help to keep up the pressure.

 

[nirofo]

I fail to understand the attitude that David is now taking with regard to this petition, he was all for it when it was first initiated and played a massive part in it's production, what then has since happened to dampen his enthusiasm to this extent, is there something he's not telling us about? As deborah4 has indicated, we are rapidly losing any impetus this petition may have had in persuading the relevant conservation bodies to get off their collective asses and do something.

If anyone has been watching the latest news, it seems that there is about to be a big push initiated in the UK, on reducing CO2 emissions in line with the commitment to the Kyoto pact. This is bound to give more leverage to the windfarm proposers who will ride roughshod over any local council that hasn't got the balls to say no, promises of big bucks for the communities will encourage those who don't care about the environment anyway, to say I'll have some of that, bring it on!

nirofo.

 

[David]

I fail to understand the attitude that David is now taking with regard to this petition, he was all for it when it was first initiated and played a massive part in it's production, what then has since happened to dampen his enthusiasm to this extent, is there something he's not telling us about?

To all those who have commented on my last post:

I am sorry if I have ruffled any feathers but, although I am 100 % behind the petition, I have been become less happy about collateral events.

The facts:

I volunteered, and was accepted as drafter of the petition in this Forum. Most of the active members contributed valuable comments and amendments and I believe that the final result was to most people’s satisfaction.

I have been in contact from the start with Mark Duchamp and other people in Scotland on the timing of delivery and the general agreement, without being precise, was around the end of summer.

I WILL NOW FULFIL MY RESPONSIBILITIES TO ALL READING THIS, AS WELL AS ALL OTHER SIGNATORIES, AND PRINT OUT AND PERSONALLY POST THE PETITION AT THE END OF THIS WEEK.

I will add the (currently 864) Proact Team block to the petition. I will leave it to others, based in UK, to do PR work. I have neither contacts nor access to the UK media. Any other signatures which have been collected can of course be forwarded additionally to the target addressees.

The future:

I am more than happy to give my assistance, and Proact’s support, to any worthwhile bird protection campaign in future with the exception that I will not participate with anything where Mark Duchamp is involved. I have watched in amazement as hundreds of honest and respectable ornithologists, in numerous newsgroups etc., are vilified by him when they refuse to accept EVERYTHING he states. People I know personally and respect as conservationists are declared to be part of a worldwide conspiracy against his fight against wind farms per se. Some might describe this attitude as paranoic. That he doesn’t believe in global warming is his concern. I appreciate his commitment; but I find fanatics, whatever their cause, dangerous and, at the end of the day, counterproductive.

I will copy all of the above to Mark and his acolytes.

Sorry about the previous outburst. All is now well I trust.



David

 

[Tyke]

"I WILL NOW FULFIL MY RESPONSIBILITIES TO ALL READING THIS, AS WELL AS ALL OTHER SIGNATORIES, AND PRINT OUT AND PERSONALLY POST THE PETITION AT THE END OF THIS WEEK."

Thanks David.Well done
Colin

 

[Osprey_watcher]

Thanks for that David. Glad you are still as keen as ever.

 

[James Lowther]

thanks David,
keep up the good work,
James

 

[turkish van]

Appreciate that David. At the end of the day you're the one who deserves to send it off.

I hope it can still have the impact it was initially intended to have!

 

[Jos Stratford]

I am more than happy to give my assistance, and Proact’s support, to any worthwhile bird protection campaign in future with the exception that I will not participate with anything where Mark Duchamp is involved. I have watched in amazement as hundreds of honest and respectable ornithologists, in numerous newsgroups etc., are vilified by him when they refuse to accept EVERYTHING he states.

Your work is appreciated David and I fully understand your position on this, I don't think this petition would have ever got off the ground on BF without the prior departure of the gentleman you refer to.

Best wishes

 

[nirofo]

Thank's David.

Glad to hear everythings OK, you had us worried for a moment!

nirofo.

 

[David]

Petition delivery

Ladies and chaps,

I am in a difficult position as regards delivery of the petition.

A few days ago I stated here that I would print and post the petition this week. I also informed Mark Duchamp of this as, although he has not been involved in Forum discussions for some time, it was essentially his initiative in the first place which I, inter alia, agreed to act on his behalf:

Please be assured that I am not trying to put things off or play for time. I must however quote the gist of what Mark Duchamp has now stated in 2 separate emails (not both to me - and "expletives deleted!):



“I think we did well to wait till we got 1,000 signatures, and over 200 from RSPB members. Don't you?

Now, there are 23 days till September, and I am on location, in Scotland, talking to the general public, getting signatures in writing. Do you think I should drop that activity?

If you have reasons to believe the month of August is the best time for getting the petition out, please feel free to let us all know.”

(other signature lists are also circulating)




And

“I wish you would reconsider. The petition is getting to be known. It attracts more signatures online every day, and we are getting more written signatures as well.

The month of August is no good for taking any action anyway. September is a lot better.

For the press: I will send you a list of UK contacts. It is better if they receive the press release from Proact.”



I think personally that this is quite reasonable and acceptable. If youagree I would go for the first Monday in September (4.9).

It suits me better to be honest as I am running a stand at the International Ornithologists’ Congress www.i.o.c.org in Hamburg next week for my bird society www.vso-internet.de and the two people who were to be accompanying me are can only make it on Wednesday half way through. I am already in stress getting papers, posters etc., ready.

Thanks,


David

 

[Jos Stratford]

I think personally that this is quite reasonable and acceptable. If youagree I would go for the first Monday in September (4.9).

I think that is fair enough, there is then a set date to work towards with regard adding any last signatures, etc.

I think the concern of some of us was that it had simply stalled and was possibly being derailed by a certain activist. Knowing it is coming to a head is reassuring.

 

[Osprey_watcher]

I don't understand the significance of waiting until September.

Is there anything to be gained? Is it something I don't understand?