Sand Plovers from Oman, 02/2024 (1 Viewer)

[michael-ibk]

Having little experience with Tibetan (formerly Lesser) and Greater Sand Plover I find telling them apart really tricky. The darkish feet seem to indicate all Tibetan but they could well be just dirty. My flying one does seem to have well projecting legs (indicating Greater?). All birds from Muscat River Mouth. Different individuals, only the BIF shots show the same bird.

 

[Harrybongo]

Hi. By the length of the bill, leg colour, I would lean toward Lesser. Also, the pics show a short tibia, a Greater's would be longer and slightly, lighter in colour. Just to add, in general, a lesser, has a steeper forehead. The only thing that's not in favour of a lesser, as you mentioned, is the trailing legs?...... Always a difficult one to ID!........ for me, anyway! 😂

 

[Butty]

Pretty chunky bill would push me towards greater sand plover for all of them - certainly pic 1.

 

[Harrybongo]

Pretty chunky bill would push me towards greater sand plover for all of them - certainly pic 1.

Hi. Chunky, but too short, I think?

 

[Jon.Bryant]

I also struggled with winter plumage birds in Oman.

Looking at bill length, bulbous tip to the bill, toe projection etc. I think Greater, apart from perhaps the last photo. I presume this is a different bird which looks a bit smaller billed and round headed and may be Tibetan.

 

[Harrybongo]

Pretty chunky bill would push me towards greater sand plover for all of them - certainly pic 1.

Hi, again. Agree on pic 1, could be greater?.... Looks like there's two birds in the set - lesser and greater?

 

[michael-ibk]

Thanks for the help so far everybody. Yes, as mentioned in the OP these are different birds - only the photos with the flying ones show the same individual. On site I was very sure both species were present, doubt came when going through my photos.

 

[Bubbs]

Courtesy of Dave Bakewell

 

[Jon.Bryant]

Courtesy of Dave Bakewell

Nice video.

The only thing I would say is that GSPs in Malaysia should be 'leschenaultii' whereas birds in Oman should be 'columbinus'. I recall (but could be wrong) that that later subspecies is less 'gangly' with a shorter bill, so I think it is harder to tell from Tibetan. The GSP in the video really do look very long billed and gangly legged!

I know that when I lived in Hong Kong, telling LSP from GSP generally seemed not too hard, but when I visited Oman, despite previous experience, I found it difficult. I presume that this was does to the subspecies of GSP involved.

 

[kuzeycem]

All look Tibetan to me. Even columbinus GSP tends to show a larger bill with a more prominent bulge and pointed tip. Dark legs and more distinct face pattern also favor TSP. TSP also apparently show feet projection, e.g.

ML614380247 - Tibetan Sand-Plover - Macaulay Library

Macaulay Library ML614380247; © Dave Bakewell; Pulau Pinang, Malaysia

macaulaylibrary.org

 

[CARERY]

What about all Tibetan except the bird in 8C9A2406.jpg which shows a comparatively massive bill that looks like a Greater to me

 

[michael-ibk]

Thanks again, especially appreciate the video. Even though the subspecies point made by @Jon.Bryant muddies the waters again.

I found one (unfortunately very distant and not my subject when taking the photo, heavy crop) which I assume to be a Greater, what do you think? Leg colour does look good for this one. The angle is less than ideal for the bill though.

 

[Jon.Bryant]

TSP also apparently show feet projection, e.g.

Very interesting.

I haven't got any reference books with me, but I seem to recall that species difference in tail pattern and wing-bar have also been mooted - or has this been disproven, of only works for LSP and GSP, but not TSP? It would be great to know if all possible flight features hold true, particularly as this bird shows an awful lot of foot projection!

 

[Jon.Bryant]

Just searching the net and an old article by Hirschfeld, Roselaar and Shirihai (2000), indicates there are differences in both tail pattern and wind bar pattern.

The tail pattern is not really visible in the flight photos, so taking the wing bar, the bar in GSP is meant to bulge out on the inner primaries and fall short of the outer primaries. LSP is more even width and extends further out on to the outer primaries.

The flight shots of the birds in Oman, seem to me to fit the above article's description of GSP rather than LSP. Presumably as H.Shirihai was one of the authors, the feature should hold true for birds in the middle east - 'columbinus' GSP and TGP.

Other features in flight are listed as tail pattern (are there any other photos more looking down on the tail)? and underwing primary coverts (are there any other photos with the wing fully raised)?

I suppose it is possible that this article is now outdated and the features have been proven to be unreliable - does anyone have evidence of this?

 

[johnallcock]

The recent (2022?) article by Bakewell in BirdingAsia is useful regarding in-flight features, discussing the differences between Tibetan and Siberian SP but unfortunately it doesn't discuss the Greater. I don't have a copy here in the office to check how these compare to the photos in this thread. The Hirschfeld et al. paper concentrates mostly on birds in the Middle East/East Africa, but it didn't recognise plumage differences between Tibetan and Siberian, so I think it may include some features now known to be characteristic of Siberian in the description of 'Lesser'.

Head pattern and structure on almost all of these birds looks best for Tibetan (including what I can judge of the extra photo in post #12, but this is hard to tell at this angle).
The only problem for me is the bill on the first photo, which does look large for Tibetan but also does not look the right shape for the bill of a Greater SP (eg blunter tip, no obvious nail on upper mandible). The plumage on this bird looks like Tibetan SP and I think it is probably a Tibetan with an unusual bill. I've seen unusually large-billed birds before, both in the field and in online photos.

 

[Andy Adcock]

Pretty chunky bill would push me towards greater sand plover for all of them - certainly pic 1.

Very few 'Greater' will have such black legs?

 

[michael-ibk]

Other features in flight are listed as tail pattern (are there any other photos more looking down on the tail)? and underwing primary coverts (are there any other photos with the wing fully raised)?

This is the only other photo I have from this bird.



Again, thanks for the help, very informative answers.