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Secret to a steady hold. (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter black crow
- Start date
iveljay
Well-known member
I go along with Barry, basically when stressed, do not grip, just support. It used to work well when target shooting with a rifle. People have made fortunes writing books and giving courses on de-stressing, most of the info is free online.
Also, there are some bins that I find a lot easier to hold steadier than others. In a test outside a shop some years ago I bought a pair about half the price of a technically superior model I went in for simply because I could hold them steadier and read the fine print on a poster down the road far more clearly. Resting the 'better' pair on something removed the problem, just needed to take a low wall along with them....
Not fond of things with peaks, they either get dragged off, blown off, or try and give me whiplash in undergrowth etc.
Also, there are some bins that I find a lot easier to hold steadier than others. In a test outside a shop some years ago I bought a pair about half the price of a technically superior model I went in for simply because I could hold them steadier and read the fine print on a poster down the road far more clearly. Resting the 'better' pair on something removed the problem, just needed to take a low wall along with them....
Not fond of things with peaks, they either get dragged off, blown off, or try and give me whiplash in undergrowth etc.
black crow
Well-known member
I just noticed this same thing in my new Meopro that I tested against a Celestron costing less than half. It was much easier to hold steady for some reason. It, the Celestron, was lighter and smaller and I've heard here if I remember correct that a heavier bino is usually easier to hold steady. Not this time.
I had the opportunity to compare a Canon 10x42 IS with my Nikon 10x32 EDG I several years ago on the platform at Cape May Point, NJ.
The gentleman who was using the Canon wore glasses. His wife had problems with it because she did not wear glasses and they did not know that the eye cups could extend for people like her. When that problem was corrected she loved it!
I compared both binoculars without using the stabilization feature on the Canon. I braced my elbows on the top of the fence surrounding the deck while doing it. I concluded that they were about equal without the stabilization.
When I compared them freehand while standing up with the stabilization working on the Canon it was no contest! The Canon, although an uncomfortable lump in my hand compared to the EDG, was much better!
Bob
Stephen Prower
Well-known member
Finnstick
Black crow
1. I don't like posting twice, but old advice on the Forum for steadying a 10x binocular, as occasionally repeated since I've been visiting the Forum, was to use a 'Finnstick'.
Since nobody else has mentioned a Finnstick, in case it may help you, I post again.
I describe my own Finnstick, but the object is mainly to get across the general idea--light weight, convenience & simplicity--and features of Finnsticks.
I apologise, to use the British saying, if I am carrying coals to Newcastle!
2. I use a modern day Finnstick to support binocular, spotting scope or bridge camera. [I caution that I haven't yet used the Finnstick with a roof]. I attach pictures.
In fact the 'Finnstick' is a 235gram (8oz) Chinese-made Yunteng 188 selfie stick fitted--appropriately!--with a Finnish-made 7dayshop V-mount (Photo 1).
The total cost off Ebay was some £15 (currently $20).
The Yunteng 188 has a tripod screw, and a very basic tilt-head. It also has a tripod bush in its base.
A binocular does not sit well for me in the V-mount. My bodge is to fit a sweatband to 'fill in' between the arms of the 'V' (Photo 2).
I employ two basic ways of using a Finnstick to support a binocular:
1) Hold and focus the binocular with one hand. Prop it up with the Finnstick held in the other hand
2) Anchor the base of the Finnstick in my belt using a carabiner or belt pouch. Hold the binocular, resting on the V-mount of the Finnstick, with both hands.
3. I use various bits and pieces with the Yunteng (Photo 3).
I have mentioned the V-mount and carabiner already. I made my own belt pouch, but also bought a gardener's belt pouch with extra pockets. I bought a loop to screw into the base of the Yunteng to afford an attachment to the carabiner off E-bay. The screw of the loop did not hold, so I additionally washered it with some rubber cut out of bicycle inner tube.
The advantage of using loop & carabiner, rather than belt pouch, to anchor the Finnstick is that, when the Finnstick is not in use, it hangs conveniently out of the way from the belt by one's side.
The Yunteng is intended for use with small cameras. I wouldn't trust its tripod screw or tilt-head with anything heavy. Let's just say that the L-bracket for attaching a binocular to a tripod screw crept into the photo whilst my attention was elsewhere! Definitely an 'at your own risk' attachment!
Stephen
Black crow
1. I don't like posting twice, but old advice on the Forum for steadying a 10x binocular, as occasionally repeated since I've been visiting the Forum, was to use a 'Finnstick'.
Since nobody else has mentioned a Finnstick, in case it may help you, I post again.
I describe my own Finnstick, but the object is mainly to get across the general idea--light weight, convenience & simplicity--and features of Finnsticks.
I apologise, to use the British saying, if I am carrying coals to Newcastle!
2. I use a modern day Finnstick to support binocular, spotting scope or bridge camera. [I caution that I haven't yet used the Finnstick with a roof]. I attach pictures.
In fact the 'Finnstick' is a 235gram (8oz) Chinese-made Yunteng 188 selfie stick fitted--appropriately!--with a Finnish-made 7dayshop V-mount (Photo 1).
The total cost off Ebay was some £15 (currently $20).
The Yunteng 188 has a tripod screw, and a very basic tilt-head. It also has a tripod bush in its base.
A binocular does not sit well for me in the V-mount. My bodge is to fit a sweatband to 'fill in' between the arms of the 'V' (Photo 2).
I employ two basic ways of using a Finnstick to support a binocular:
1) Hold and focus the binocular with one hand. Prop it up with the Finnstick held in the other hand
2) Anchor the base of the Finnstick in my belt using a carabiner or belt pouch. Hold the binocular, resting on the V-mount of the Finnstick, with both hands.
3. I use various bits and pieces with the Yunteng (Photo 3).
I have mentioned the V-mount and carabiner already. I made my own belt pouch, but also bought a gardener's belt pouch with extra pockets. I bought a loop to screw into the base of the Yunteng to afford an attachment to the carabiner off E-bay. The screw of the loop did not hold, so I additionally washered it with some rubber cut out of bicycle inner tube.
The advantage of using loop & carabiner, rather than belt pouch, to anchor the Finnstick is that, when the Finnstick is not in use, it hangs conveniently out of the way from the belt by one's side.
The Yunteng is intended for use with small cameras. I wouldn't trust its tripod screw or tilt-head with anything heavy. Let's just say that the L-bracket for attaching a binocular to a tripod screw crept into the photo whilst my attention was elsewhere! Definitely an 'at your own risk' attachment!
Stephen
Attachments
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Here is a good review on the Canon by Kimmo.
http://redirect.viglink.com/?format...www.suomenlintuvaruste.com/k...L_IS_WP_GB.pdf
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black crow
Well-known member
I came across those when doing a lightweight folding monopod search the other day. I was wondering if they were good so thanks for sharing that info.
bluespiderweb
Great Grey Looking Out
trekking pole, boonie hat
Yes, to the trekking pole, I use one because I need it for support (mostly for my back). Some people like them, some don't, but they could easily provide a bino rest for when you are sitting, since many are adjustable. I am talking about the ones with the cane type handle, which give you more surface to use for a rest, whether camera or binocular.
They are a good steadier for the body too, especially on less than flat surfaces, or rough terrain. Handy to have, I think-especially for us older, or klutzy guys even! I don't carry it, I use it full time.
The hat-I use a wide brim cotton boonie hat, with a chin strap (only used when windy), and I have used it mainly as as side shield for shading your eye cups when glassing from strong side sun. The brims of the thick cotton boonies are very flexible. It also can shield your face from the wind when it's cold-did that last time I was out in 20 deg F weather, with a strong breeze.
If you're not shaking from the cold, it's easier to hold anything steadier! And your eyes don't water as much either.
Yes, to the trekking pole, I use one because I need it for support (mostly for my back). Some people like them, some don't, but they could easily provide a bino rest for when you are sitting, since many are adjustable. I am talking about the ones with the cane type handle, which give you more surface to use for a rest, whether camera or binocular.
They are a good steadier for the body too, especially on less than flat surfaces, or rough terrain. Handy to have, I think-especially for us older, or klutzy guys even! I don't carry it, I use it full time.
The hat-I use a wide brim cotton boonie hat, with a chin strap (only used when windy), and I have used it mainly as as side shield for shading your eye cups when glassing from strong side sun. The brims of the thick cotton boonies are very flexible. It also can shield your face from the wind when it's cold-did that last time I was out in 20 deg F weather, with a strong breeze.
If you're not shaking from the cold, it's easier to hold anything steadier! And your eyes don't water as much either.
black crow
Well-known member
I hike with trekking poles about half of the time depending on the terrain and weather but they are pretty short for binos. I sprung for one of those little monopod selfie poles for about $15 and I'll see if it's usable. They are around a pound so I can just strap it to my belt pack hopefully. However it's not going to be anything for quick views.I've been working on some of the suggestions and especially one has really helped. My viewing was noticably better today.
Now on another note I really would like to share something cool that happened on my hike today. I am still testing the Meopro 10x32 and I was on a sunny hillside and a Red Tail Hawk was flying low and slowly coming right towards me almost at a full stop just holding in a medium wind with his legs hanging down. I got him right in my view and he was so low and close he took up the greater part of my FOV. A perfect view with time to enjoy it. Then all of a sudden it flipped over on it's back just as another Read Tail grabbed its feet for a split second and then they both peeled off. I had no idea another Hawk was near and I doubt I'll ever have such a perfect view of that kind of action again.
Now on another note I really would like to share something cool that happened on my hike today. I am still testing the Meopro 10x32 and I was on a sunny hillside and a Red Tail Hawk was flying low and slowly coming right towards me almost at a full stop just holding in a medium wind with his legs hanging down. I got him right in my view and he was so low and close he took up the greater part of my FOV. A perfect view with time to enjoy it. Then all of a sudden it flipped over on it's back just as another Read Tail grabbed its feet for a split second and then they both peeled off. I had no idea another Hawk was near and I doubt I'll ever have such a perfect view of that kind of action again.
bluespiderweb
Great Grey Looking Out
Pretty neat, BC! I've seen that in films, where they lock talons and spin on the way down, but never in person. It must have been great to see for real, even if it wasn't protracted, and you were watching full frame too! Hope your selfie pole works out for you.
black crow
Well-known member
I've seen the full fall and spin with two Eagles in a lonely canyon in eastern Oregon many years ago. It was from a great height and I almost thought they might hit the ground they pulled out so close. It was truly amazing. One thing about spending much of my life outdoors is eventually you see some things. You know though after a whole lifetime I still haven't seen a Cougar and we have plenty of them here and also when I lived up in Washington. I saw nice tracks the other day near town here in the snow but that's as close as I've come. I'm sure plenty have seen me.
Chosun Juan
Given to Fly
BC, I've seen two of our Nankeen Kestrels lock talons like that and spiral all the way down - they actually hit the ground in full spin! My heart was in my mouth! - that's not how the script was meant to go :eek!: Luckily the native grass in the paddock they hit was about a metre high and quite thick - also they are among our smallest raptors. They both regained their composure and flew off - phew!! o
As far as getting a steadier hold with 8, 10x, or more goes, the advice of straps or sticks helps. All the cool kids wear their baseball caps backwards anyway so they're not much use! :-O
Out here a wide brimmed hat is mandatory unless you want your ears sizzling like bacon!
I use a couple of techniques out in the field:-
1. Where possible brace against a tree or rock.
2. Keep your limbs tucked in as close to your body as possible (this minimizes moments of force that your body has to deal with).
3. As others have mentioned, on occasion it helps when doing this to balance the bins on the tips of your upwards extended fingers - however it's more of a relief/change-up thing.
4. Core strength and isometric balancing muscles are perhaps more important than arm strength.
5. Relaxation and breathing techniques in concert with that can help steady a view - even if only momentarily (or a series of brief moments) - long enough to check details or make an id. Similar to the way I shoot pistols, or play bowls - the steadiest point comes in the pause between exhalation of one breath and inhalation of another.
I really think one of the Most Important factors is how individual bins fit your hands. My Swift Audubon ED porros were a quite shaky bin for me due to the wings out arm position forced by the grip. In contrast, my Zen ED3's are the steadiest bin I have ever held. Even the very similar Bushnell Legend M clone is not as comfortable for me - or as steady.
With my Zens my hands are large enough that my thumbs reach under the barrel of each tube over to the barrel opposite where I firmly brace my thumbs in the indents. In this way my thumbs are crossed over under the bins for a very steady hold. This is further enhanced by the wide smooth focus bridge which I place my middle fingers on. My ring and little fingers of each hand are wrapped firmly around each tube - in addition I firmly abutt the ring finger up against the inside of the focus bridge, applying some rearward force (ie. towards my face - only gently since I don't want to bend or break my glasses frames). Luckily the Zen has a very large diameter and length focus wheel, so I use my two forefingers to rock and roll it backwards and fowards - the view remains very steady whilst doing this. If I apply the other techniques I mentioned above in concert with this grip, then I get a very steady view.
Other bins I have found with similar ergonomics are the Swarovski 10x50 SV, Nikon Monarch HG 10x42, and the Swarovski 10x32 SV (suitable for smaller hands).
Hope that helps :t:
Chosun :gh:
As far as getting a steadier hold with 8, 10x, or more goes, the advice of straps or sticks helps. All the cool kids wear their baseball caps backwards anyway so they're not much use! :-O
Out here a wide brimmed hat is mandatory unless you want your ears sizzling like bacon!
I use a couple of techniques out in the field:-
1. Where possible brace against a tree or rock.
2. Keep your limbs tucked in as close to your body as possible (this minimizes moments of force that your body has to deal with).
3. As others have mentioned, on occasion it helps when doing this to balance the bins on the tips of your upwards extended fingers - however it's more of a relief/change-up thing.
4. Core strength and isometric balancing muscles are perhaps more important than arm strength.
5. Relaxation and breathing techniques in concert with that can help steady a view - even if only momentarily (or a series of brief moments) - long enough to check details or make an id. Similar to the way I shoot pistols, or play bowls - the steadiest point comes in the pause between exhalation of one breath and inhalation of another.
I really think one of the Most Important factors is how individual bins fit your hands. My Swift Audubon ED porros were a quite shaky bin for me due to the wings out arm position forced by the grip. In contrast, my Zen ED3's are the steadiest bin I have ever held. Even the very similar Bushnell Legend M clone is not as comfortable for me - or as steady.
With my Zens my hands are large enough that my thumbs reach under the barrel of each tube over to the barrel opposite where I firmly brace my thumbs in the indents. In this way my thumbs are crossed over under the bins for a very steady hold. This is further enhanced by the wide smooth focus bridge which I place my middle fingers on. My ring and little fingers of each hand are wrapped firmly around each tube - in addition I firmly abutt the ring finger up against the inside of the focus bridge, applying some rearward force (ie. towards my face - only gently since I don't want to bend or break my glasses frames). Luckily the Zen has a very large diameter and length focus wheel, so I use my two forefingers to rock and roll it backwards and fowards - the view remains very steady whilst doing this. If I apply the other techniques I mentioned above in concert with this grip, then I get a very steady view.
Other bins I have found with similar ergonomics are the Swarovski 10x50 SV, Nikon Monarch HG 10x42, and the Swarovski 10x32 SV (suitable for smaller hands).
Hope that helps :t:
Chosun :gh:
Kammerdiner
Well-known member
Here in Pennsylvania, a pair of adult Eagles were rescued a few days ago from a river when they got their talons stuck and fell in. On the news they said the Eagles were "fighting." Well, I guess you could call it that. I prefer "courting." Anyway, a local sheriff fished them out, took them back to his truck to warm up, and let them go. All's good.
I don't like 360 degree brims for birding because they mess up your hearing and it's hard to locate the singing birds with all the funky audible reflections off the brim. At altitude or out in the open full brims are necessary though. Unless you want to burn your ears off.
I often use trekking poles (pretty much de rigueur for old farts like me going backpackacking), but yup they are too short to use as monopods--and who has time for monopods anyway?
I have a monopod and I used it with a little 27x scope. I didn't like it though. Just give me a little tripod. I'll carry it.
Mark
PS: forgot to mention that, yes, those bills will obstruct your vertical view and cause you to smack your head into low-hanging branches. Routinely in fact. I let my wife take the lead when we go hiking. She says: "Look out, there's a branch." Mostly it works.
I don't like 360 degree brims for birding because they mess up your hearing and it's hard to locate the singing birds with all the funky audible reflections off the brim. At altitude or out in the open full brims are necessary though. Unless you want to burn your ears off.
I often use trekking poles (pretty much de rigueur for old farts like me going backpackacking
), but yup they are too short to use as monopods--and who has time for monopods anyway?I have a monopod and I used it with a little 27x scope. I didn't like it though. Just give me a little tripod. I'll carry it.
Mark
PS: forgot to mention that, yes, those bills will obstruct your vertical view and cause you to smack your head into low-hanging branches. Routinely in fact. I let my wife take the lead when we go hiking. She says: "Look out, there's a branch." Mostly it works.
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Stephen Mark
Well-known member
Optics 4 Birding has or had a spot on the website about how Steve hols his bins which works quite well but I can't remember enough to quote accurately. Also a harness which keeps just a bit of tension on the bins helps quite a lot.
Steve
Steve
black crow
Well-known member
That's the advice I got in a PM the other day. I've been letting that happen and it really helps. It's just a relaxing without trying to put the target dead on and holding it, is my understanding. Letting the natural body motion sort of move around and through the target and concentrating on the information your eyes pick up as that happens. Seems to help me.
Off topic but I just was out testing a new bin off my upper deck and spotted 52 Elk on the hillside. I've been watching them relax and graze in my big 25x100s. These are the first Elk I've seen this winter. Quite a sight in the big binoculars. A couple of big boys in there.
Off topic but I just was out testing a new bin off my upper deck and spotted 52 Elk on the hillside. I've been watching them relax and graze in my big 25x100s. These are the first Elk I've seen this winter. Quite a sight in the big binoculars. A couple of big boys in there.
bluespiderweb
Great Grey Looking Out
I've also been holding my bins a little differently lately, and I don't know why, it just seemed natural. I grip the bin with my right hand, and the left I just use the fingertips to hold it steady. Don't know why it seems to work either, but for me it does. Yes, sure, I guess I move too, but I don't notice it as much!
See, that's what I mean, we'd miss your comments about those 52 Elk on the hillside if you saw in your BIG binos!
See, that's what I mean, we'd miss your comments about those 52 Elk on the hillside if you saw in your BIG binos!
bluespiderweb
Great Grey Looking Out
Here in Pennsylvania, a pair of adult Eagles were rescued a few days ago from a river when they got their talons stuck and fell in. On the news they said the Eagles were "fighting." Well, I guess you could call it that. I prefer "courting." Anyway, a local sheriff fished them out, took them back to his truck to warm up, and let them go. All's good.
I don't like 360 degree brims for birding because they mess up your hearing and it's hard to locate the singing birds with all the funky audible reflections off the brim. At altitude or out in the open full brims are necessary though. Unless you want to burn your ears off.
I often use trekking poles (pretty much de rigueur for old farts like me going backpackacking
I have a monopod and I used it with a little 27x scope. I didn't like it though. Just give me a little tripod. I'll carry it.
Mark
PS: forgot to mention that, yes, those bills will obstruct your vertical view and cause you to smack your head into low-hanging branches. Routinely in fact. I let my wife take the lead when we go hiking. She says: "Look out, there's a branch." Mostly it works.
That's a great story, Mark, about the Eagles! Glad to hear it had a good outcome, no doubt by the Sheriff's quick actions. Good for him!
The trekking poles can be used if you sit, not stand, and I prefer just using one, with the cane grip on my outings.
Yeah, I've heard that about the wide brim boonies not letting you locate birds, but that happens to me with or without a hat! And my hearing is pretty sensitive for an old guy! But I'm fairly new to birding, just more of a woods and fields walker, who likes to take pictures and have binoculars along too. I'll wear the boonie for sun, wind and rain protection, and the ability to shade my bins when the sun is low.
If it's too hot, I'm not out there anyway, but they do have cooler versions of the boonies too. I have a new vented wide brim safari style hat I haven't even used yet, since I got it last year. Hopefully I can get out more this year, in the warmer weather again.
black crow
Well-known member
Here in Pennsylvania, a pair of adult Eagles were rescued a few days ago from a river when they got their talons stuck and fell in. On the news they said the Eagles were "fighting." Well, I guess you could call it that. I prefer "courting." Anyway, a local sheriff fished them out, took them back to his truck to warm up, and let them go. All's good.
I don't like 360 degree brims for birding because they mess up your hearing and it's hard to locate the singing birds with all the funky audible reflections off the brim. At altitude or out in the open full brims are necessary though. Unless you want to burn your ears off.
I often use trekking poles (pretty much de rigueur for old farts like me going backpackacking
I have a monopod and I used it with a little 27x scope. I didn't like it though. Just give me a little tripod. I'll carry it.
Mark
PS: forgot to mention that, yes, those bills will obstruct your vertical view and cause you to smack your head into low-hanging branches. Routinely in fact. I let my wife take the lead when we go hiking. She says: "Look out, there's a branch." Mostly it works.
Yeah those Eagles were doing the mating dance I'm pretty sure. It's getting to be that time with spring approaching. I guess sometimes love hurts. I saw buzzards today and yesterday and that means spring is in the offing around here.
