Sound recorder (2 Viewers)

[AGDK]

Hello

I have been birding for some years now, only on a hobby level, but I would like to start record sounds while I'm in the field, not for saving records of different species, but more because I often experience to hear a bird sound, but not being sure exactly which bird it is.. So I would like to record constantly while I'm out and later be able to listen to my recording to find out what species it is..

I'm looking for what would be the best equipment for a decent amount of money (max 250€), that can record sound while I'm in the field.. It should have a decent lifetime on the battery and be easy to use, just to attach to the bag or similar... When I search online I see people propose a lot of advance equipment, which is way above my needs/level..

I found something like Zoom H4NPRO BLACK audio recorder, which looks like an option, but I would like to hear other birders opinion as well, what you guys would suggest.. Maybe this is way above what I need or?

Thanks for any inputs..

 

[Mono]

If you are planning to record continuously when out your main problem will be isolating the microphone from ambient noise. The noise you make when moving around will be quite difficult to isolate, particularly if you are trying to make sonograms of particular birds.

A Zoom H4 would be overkill, you don't need 4 channels.

A Tascam DR10 is tiny, uses a cabled mic so you can mount the mic in the best place without having the recorder swinging about. If you go for the Pro version you can record in 32bit float, so you don't need to worry about levels.

Tascam DR-10L Pro | 32-Bit Float Audio Recorder With Lavalier Microphone

Professional miniature audio recorder with tie microphone ✓ Extremely large dynamic range thanks to 32-bit float ✓ 24-hour battery operation ✓ Bluetooth option for control via app and timecode synchronization with Atomos

www.tascam.eu

 

[AGDK]

Thanks for your input Mono..

For now I use my Iphone, which works somehow fine, when I just ensure to stop up as soon as I hear something, so I assume anything will be better than that?..

I'll try to take a look on it and read some more.. Now I know better in which direction to search.. So thanks again!

 

[Jon.Bryant]

So I would like to record constantly while I'm out

As Mono says, noise will be the biggest issue. Normally for recording birds people use directional mics (parabolas and shotguns) to help minimise off-axis unwanted noise and sounds, but with ‘always on’ recordings this is normally not possible - you don’t know if the bird is going to vocalise from in front, behind, to the left, to the right or above.

Some people favour a cardiodal or short shotgun pointed upwards, but this will pickup birds calling above you most clearly, and to some degree filter out birds calling around you at low level. Others have favoured a short shotgun pointed up, but ‘loosely’ attached, so that the mic can be grabbed and pointed at something of interest. However, I think that a recorder and directional mic will be outside your proposed budget.

To capture sound all around you, you would need an omnidirectional mic plus a recorder. This mic type will pickup everything, so that you will need to stand still when you hear a vocalisation of interest. For your budget, I am not sure you can get a recorder and XLR mic. But you could get say a Zoom F2 and a Clippy EM272 lavalier mic (circa £180). I think the DR10-L Pro is circa £200.00, so if you go for this you may not have budget for an alternative mic. The DR10-L Pro and the Zoom F2 are both 32 bit float recorders, and both come with lavalier mics, so you don’t actually need to buy a mic. Lavaliers are however designed to be worn (and generally have high self noise and low sensitivity). The Clippy EM272 lavalier, will therefore probably outperform a free mics supplied with these recorders. In my experience Zoom F2 recordings seem very quiet, but as they are 32 bit float, you can normalise the recordings in post, and they sound fine.

I haven’t tried the DR10L-Pro, but the spec suggests it is two channel. This means that if you wanted to, you could later upgrade to the High Sound Compact stereo parabola. OK, you would need to point this in the right direction, and it will not be as good as a full sized parabola, but it will be an improvement on the lavalier (especially for high frequency sound), will be relatively compact, and will not be too expensive. You could use the F2 with the High Sound Compact, but you would loose stereo, which would be a shame.

Another option could be to try something like the BirdNet PUC, which is an all in one recorder with omni mics, which can do detections and species identification (using BirdNet). The website shows the device strapped to a rucksack for use on the trail (you can actually buy a rucksack specially for the purpose, with a device mount. The spec is a bit sketchy (I recently wrote to them to elaborate, but have yet to receive a reply). However, this option would use up most of your budget.

Most other all-in-one recorders, use cardiodal mics, in a near coincidental configuration. This means they work best when recording something in front on the mics, so you have the same problem with no being able to point the device in the right direction, and probably issues with handling noise, if you try to take the device from where it is secured and aim it correctly.

The PUC has only recently gone on sale, so may be worth waiting for a review on this forum, prior to deciding.

 

[AGDK]

Thanks you very much for your explanations.. I see I have to learn some technical terms as well, since I have no idea about sound recording and the words that follows with that..

Looks like the Zoom F2 would be a fine option for recording from what I can read in the data.. Cost is around 160€ here in Poland, and then comes the question about the microphone.. I see the suggested comes as mono and stereo.. It makes any difference for my purpose, since I see the price difference is pretty huge..

Maybe I should have explain my purpose a bit more precise, since I can see it makes a difference in the type of equipment, which is optimal..

The plan was mainly just to record birds that are calling during flight, since I know most of the local species around here, when they are singing.. Calling are often more similar in voice and harder to distinguish.. Secondly I was planning here during spring/summer to look for species that are usually only active in the evening/night with calling/singing (Crakes, Bitterns etc)..

 

[Jon.Bryant]

The plan was mainly just to record birds that are calling during flight

Recording birds in flight is quite difficult. The main problem, is that you cannot get the mic near to the bird - it is much better to position a mic close to a bird, than to use a more sensitive mic.

I think the best tool for recording birds in flight is probably a parabola, due to the high gain and directional nature of the mic. But parabolas are cumbersome and expensive, and will exceed your budget.....They also need to be aimed correctly, so use can 'conflict' with getting views/using binoculars.

I am not convinced that a lavalier mic (as I suggested above) would be adequate to capture flight calls ... this would depend on how loud and how low the species was. You may want to wait to see if the PUC reviews indicate it can be used for your purposes.

The other option is to see if anyone can provide advice on an all-in-one recorder and mic system, which can be handheld.

Secondly I was planning here during spring/summer to look for species that are usually only active in the evening/night with calling/singing (Crakes, Bitterns etc)

You say 'to look for', but what do you want the recorder to do? To establish the presence of the species, to check for the species over greater distances, or to give you an idea of location/direction?

If the former, then again the PUC or a Passive Recorder (Wildlife Acoustics SM Micro?) may be good (although the latter would exceed your budget)... You could place a passive recorder in the field, secure it in place and collect later. This would allow you to check twice as many locations each night. (i.e. you listen at one place for vocalization and the passive recorder is recording at the other).

If you are wanting to check over greater distances, then you are probably really looking at a parabola again.... although parabolas are not much use at low frequency (so would be little help with detecting Eurasian Bittern over a greater distance - but their sound carriers pretty well anyway!).

If you want to try and get a sense of direction, then I am sorry, but again, I think the best tool would be parabola. These are very directional, so as long as the bird is calling persistently, you could vary the direction of the dish, and monitor the output to determine when the call sounds loudest.

 

[AGDK]

Thanks for your last input as well..

I understand your points, but I feel like it's getting more and more complex to find the right equipment for what I actually want/need..

I think I need to make some more research in what I want to aim for and then focus on that..

So once again thanks for your input... I has given me some more to think about

 

[Jon.Bryant]

I haven’t tried the DR10L-Pro, but the spec suggests it is two channel.

Sorry, I misread the spec... this is not a two channel recorder, though it can record a poly file - with the same signal recorded two two channels. This means this recorder is pretty similar to the Zoom F2, and wouldn't be useful for matching with the High Sound Compact stereo parabola.

 

[Jon.Bryant]

I recently bought a Clippy EM272 and have a Zoom F2 already. Looking at the spec of the Clippy EM272 it is probably the most sensitive mic you can get for the price (and has low noise). It is possible that due to the sensitivity, it will be very susceptible to handling noise or noise from your movement. But on the other hand, if you want to capture flight calls in an always-on recording (so not using a parabola), you probably need a relatively sensitive mic - well at least one that is not so insensitive as to be limited to close-up use only.

Rather than writing-off the F2 and Clippy as an option, next time I go out in the field (and it is not too windy), I will see how the combination works for your scenario, and then report back. Hopefully I will be able to upload a few sample recordings.

I actually bought the combo for another scenario - hiding the mic discretely in the field near a song post, to get a nice up close recording.

The Zoom F2 can be powered by a powerbank, and I have toyed with the idea of placing it in a roll top waterproof bag (with the mic cable poking through), setting it to record and leaving it in the field. This could be an option for 'listening' for crakes etc. overnight - but of course, you are relying on the recorder being discrete and hidden to prevent theft or tampering. The passive recorders, general can be secured in place with a cable tie, so are a bit more secure... although they could still be vandalized. I suppose that if you place any recorder out at dusk and collect the next morning, the risks of theft or vandalism are low, as not many people will be out and about, and the recorder will be hard to locate in the dark in any case. I have left out recorders in various countries (sometimes for several days), and never had any problems... apart from sometimes forgetting where I have put them!

 

[S_Man]

None of these recorders is somewhat rugged or weatherproof?

Calling them "field recorders" is dishonest.

 

[AGDK]

Thanks once again to all for their inputs.. Based on my research I think I'll start with something "cheaper" and make some experiments before "upgrading" to heavier gear.. After all, as for now, I just use my Iphone for recording and it works somewhat fine, especially when I'm standard stationary and since it's only for ID purpose.. But since I also use phone for other things while birding, I would prefer to have a separate recorder..

Maybe someone can suggest a cheap simple recorder.. Most important is battery lifetime, prefered USB charged and since I'm not birding in rainy weather normally it's not a problem if it's not weather proof..

Thanks

 

[Jon.Bryant]

None of these recorders is somewhat rugged or weatherproof?

Calling them "field recorders" is dishonest.

I understand what you mean.. the F2 is plastic and feels rather flimsy... but I am not sure this is really the definition of a field recorder. Zoom don't seem to think so.....



I suppose it really depends on how harshly you are going to treat your kit, and what environments you are going to use it in.... but with the exception of the passive recorders, I don't think any recorders are designed to be really weatherproof. I certainly wouldn't use my Mix-Pre 6 II without a case, and even then I would pack it away in a rucksack (with cover if necessary) if it was raining. I cannot say that I have ever seen field recording gear advertised as IPX6 or IPX7.

I also know from bitter experience with my wife's camera equipment, that electronics and high humidity are not good bedfellows. At least with a small 32bit-float recorder, if you are doing 'always-on' recordings, you can tuck it away in a plastic bag with a desiccant pack if necessary (with just the thin mic cable protruding out).

The Zoom F2 and Tascam DR10-L Pro are a bit plastic, but then they are quite cheap (and within the proposed budget). A more robust recorder (perhaps in the prosumer range), will undoubtedly cost a lot more.

In reality, I think that the only difference between studio equipment and field recorders, if one is designed to sit on a desk and the other not!

 

[Mono]

They are for Field recording rather than Studio recording. Field doesn't imply any sort of ruggedness, it just means portable, non-studio use.

 

[Jon.Bryant]

Based on my research I think I'll start with something "cheaper" and make some experiments before "upgrading" to heavier gear

I would advise that you think about what you may want to upgrade to, and buy a recorder than would enable later upgrade, without having to start again... say you later want use a XLR shotgun mic, then a recorder with only a PiP 3.5mm socket will not be much use.

My shopping list would be

1. XLR plus mini jack inputs (for later versatility in using different mics)
2. 32bit-float (as this negates the need to set recording levels and mitigates the risk of clipping, or the input falling below the noise floor).
3. Built-in mics, so you can use it for your current purpose without having to buy a mic.

OK 32bit float is not a necessity, but I think that all new recorders will include this technology one day, as it simplifies operation.

I think the cheapest recorder with XLR, 32bit-float and built in mics would be the Tascam Portacapture X6. Unfortunately this is above your proposed budget... I am also not a great fan of touch screen displays for field use... but if you are going to switch it on and just leave it recording, perhaps it is fine.

 

[S_Man]

...

In reality, I think that the only difference between studio equipment and field recorders, if one is designed to sit on a desk and the other not!

That's what I wanted to point out, they are small sized recorders that you can move around, which is a good thing, but calling them "field recorders" is dishonest, when a single droplet can brick them definitely...

 

[Jon.Bryant]

when a single droplet can brick them definitely

I really don't quite think they are that delicate. They are designed to be worn as a body pack with lavalier, and it is quite common for people to want to use this type of recording equipment in the field. The definitely don't come with a warning 'for indoor use only'.

Can you explain why you think they are so much more delicate than say a mix-pre 3 II - I suspect that if water works it's way into somewhere important and causes a short, all equipment will be vulnerable. I really don't think they are more susceptible to the elements, but as they are plastic, I do think they are susceptible to mechanic damage - perhaps being knocked against something (or being sat on) if you are not careful.

Would you class the Tentacle Track E as also 'not a field recorder'? I have been using one in the field for several years, including trips to hot and dry Texas (where I also got caught in a terrible thunder storm), cool but humid Bhutan, and recent the salty sea climate of the New Zealand Sub-antarctic Islands. I also use it in the UK, when I cannot be bothered carrying my full gear - and the UK is hardly known for its lack of rain. Despite being a tiny plastic box, it is still working fine and it is now my favorite travel or 'just in case, must carry' recorder!

 

[pppppvvvv]

I have a Zoom H2 recorder and a Comica shotgun mic.
(The mic was about £60 and the Zoom H2 is an older model and probably around £60 used nowadays)
I often record while out birding, or listen thru cheap earphones.
Amazing how much more birdsong it can detect compared to my ears.

Another option would be an Audiomoth. Although these are designed for static deployments, I'm sure it could be used whilst walking. I'll give it a try on my dog walk tomorrow if I remember, and feedback the results!

 

[Dave Boyle]

That's what I wanted to point out, they are small sized recorders that you can move around, which is a good thing, but calling them "field recorders" is dishonest, when a single droplet can brick them definitely...

I once left a Zoom H5 & a Zoom H2n out overnight in Malaysia & that evening there was a huge thunderstorm & it absolutely sheeted down & it was too wet to go and rescue them until the following morning. The H5 was absolutely fine, the H2 had been half incorporated in a termite nest & termites were coming out of it for days but it was fine too - it has developed problems recently & now only the XY configuration works but I was really impressed! I also left the H5 out in the Chathams for a couple of weeks because I forgot I'd set it, it was only when I was looking for somewhere to leave it to try & get recording of the endemic pigeon that I remembered I'd already tried! We'd had at least one night with about 55mm of rain during that period & lots of other wet days too

 

[S_Man]

I once left a Zoom H5 & a Zoom H2n out overnight ...

Nice story.

I have the opposite experience. My Zoom F3 was BRICKED during a perfectly sunny day, after 1 drop of seawater penetrated inside (the recorder was OFF), I still don't know how it happened, I could only see tiny droplets on the wrong side of the display, ie on the inside., so I suppose it happened at the buttons level. There was no trace of water on the outside.

The same happened with my R7, btw, only it wasn't bricked but refused to work as usual and displayed error messages for a few days, and in this case the drop of water was only visible on the lens... I managed to save both by rinsing with alcohol.

 

[Jon.Bryant]

The same happened with my R7, btw, only it wasn't bricked but refused to work as usual and displayed error messages for a few days, and in this case the drop of water was only visible on the lens... I managed to save both by rinsing with alcohol.

My wife’s 5D RS got water damaged in PNG. A bit like your F3, you could see water in the LCD display. We put the camera in a plastic bag with a load of dry rice, and hey presto… the water was gone, and the camera has been fine ever since. We now carry desiccant bags for the same purpose - you can get ones that are resusable (you can dry them out in a microwave). We pack a load in a zip top sealed plastic bag on every holiday, just in case.

BTW, I have heard that if there are signs of water ingress, you should never turn the device on, until you are sure it is perfectly dry. I made this mistake with a Canon bridge camera, which was stupidly on the floor of a zodiac, when a load or water came over the side. I was eager to make sure it was still working, so immediately turned it on… it came to life, but started making some awful noises and then died… a couple more ‘on offs’ with similar ‘but shorter lasting’ results and then it was gone.

Seawater is a real problem - not only do you need to get rid of the water by drying the equipment, but you also need to clean away any salt residue left behind. You are therefore probably looking at a clean at a service centre, which reminds me of another story… my wife put a bottle of insect repellent in a bag with her R7. The bottle leaked and the camera got absolutely soaked in citronella. I cleaned and dried it as best I could, but the LCD was damaged and it stunk. We had the camera checked over and cleaned by a service centre, and the LCD was replaced as a group of pixels were lost, but otherwise it has been fine since.

From our stories it looks like LCDs may be the weakest element…