Sound recorder (2 Viewers)

[pppppvvvv]

I have a Zoom H2 recorder and a Comica shotgun mic.
(The mic was about £60 and the Zoom H2 is an older model and probably around £60 used nowadays)
I often record while out birding, or listen thru cheap earphones.
Amazing how much more birdsong it can detect compared to my ears.

Another option would be an Audiomoth. Although these are designed for static deployments, I'm sure it could be used whilst walking. I'll give it a try on my dog walk tomorrow if I remember, and feedback the results!

Hmm, Audiomoth on it's default mode, didn't work at all well while on the move, (due to footsteps /rustling) but fine if I stopped to listen.
Battery life is very good on this device, but I do find them fiddly, and very basic.
Could work though.

Screenshot is after running the audio file thru Birdnet-analyser, then opening the audio file and birdnet-analyser generated label file in Audacity, which does look really good, and makes going back to the calls really easy.

Other pic of audiomoth in home made water resistant housing

 

[Gnome du Jardin]

Hi AGDQ!
As a new recorder (less than two years, but... a lot of time in the field), here's my two cents :
-I started with a use Zoom H4n. Like the H4n pro, there is a stereo mic integrated and two XLR for extern mic. Not a good start as the pre-amp are pretty noisy. I found a Beyerdynamic MCE 86 II shotgun mic for not that much used and I bought a less expensive blimp on amazon. I still had some fun.

• After a few month, I bought a Zoom H5. With the better sound quality, I did some nice recording. But you have to learn to live with the floor noise or record at low gain, less ideal for bird. I still have a lot of fun with the equipment. In the field, I do two things : Sometime I put the zoom on a stand and the shotgun mic on a stand, pointing both in the same direction (a bird), and wait. Very cool result. Sometime, I use the Zoom H5 only as a recorder and I got a boom pole for my shotgun mic and during hiking, I try to get the mic closer to the bird without disturbing it. Two very fun method.
• As the hobby take more and more place in my life, I just invest in a zoom F3 and a shotgun rode NTG4+. I haven't got to test the kit as if right now, thanks to the rain.

SO

I don't think the Zoom H4n pro is a good start for you. Too much noise and not a good mic for bird. If you can get a Zoom H5 used, it's nice! Lots of fun and the sound is good! Plus you can start with decent recording. After that, if you like it, it's easy to update the equipment later. You can buy a shotgun mic, a parabolic mic or the shotgun attachment for the Zoom H5 if you want to stay with minimal equipment. But keep in mind, the Zoom H4n and the Zoom H5 are more for the musician. BUT they are way less expensive and easier to find used than more expensive equipment. A lot of people bought Zoom H5 during the pandemic for guitar recording and are selling them now.

I now have a Zoom F3 but definitively will keep the H5 for some nice stereo recording or for the portable quality if a don't want my shotgun mic on a hardcore hike.

I don't know TASCAM, but I heard a lot of good things!

 

[AGDK]

Thanks again to everyone for the different inputs..

I have been reading some more reviews and recommendation from others round about.. I see that many people recommend the "ZOOM H1n" as a good one for starters, since the quality is good compared to the very affordable price.. I was planning to have that for a try first, since the price is even below 100€.. Then if I like the concept and how it works, maybe by time I will upgrade to something more hardcore..

Anybody here with experience with the "ZOOM H1n"?

 

[Gnome du Jardin]

In my opinion, in Canada, the Zoom H1n is too expensive for the value, as you can find Zoom H4n pro used for this price. But :
In my opinion, the pro id the price for the quality! You will have a lot of fun for not a lot of money. The problem is that if you like recording birds, you will hit a wall after a couple of months. You can't direct the sound, you don't have XLR so you will not able to upgrade the mic and the sound good but not great.

If your not going in the field specifically for bird recording but when you go birding you want to record for fun, why not! You will have distant sound birds but fun sound quality and good memories!

I am sorry to add option as it's not your question, but as you are recording with your phone and if it has a connector, I know that some people use the small rode mic with a 3.5 plug and the Merlin app for recording. With the Merlin app you will have a .wav recording and an ok microphone for recording. If I had know this before buying my first Zoom H4n, I would have done that I think. Macaulay recommend the Rode Videomic go. If you have a Iphone, I think there is an adaptor for the 3.5 mm. That with a small pistol grip and you could have some super fun! Here is a link : 2019 Gear Review.

I have to buy that kind of microphone for my job. If I have an opportunity, I will try it on my phone and leave an update!

 

[AGDK]

Thanks for your input.. As I said the H1n I can get here in Poland for less than 100€ and I don't really like to buy used.. I once tried to buy DSLR camera used, and usually people sell for a reason, and I have not too good experience with it.. Anyway, a used H4n cost around double of a new H1n here in Poland and it's even hard to find used ones..

Another question.. Beside the BirdNET, is there any download-able program that you can recommend for sound-ID of the birds? I see a print screen in post #21, but I can't see any name anywhere?

Usually I use the Birdnet app or Merlin app on the phone, but when I start to record and have them on the computer anyway, would be easier to do it here..

Thanks

 

[pppppvvvv]

Thanks for your input.. As I said the H1n I can get here in Poland for less than 100€ and I don't really like to buy used.. I once tried to buy DSLR camera used, and usually people sell for a reason, and I have not too good experience with it.. Anyway, a used H4n cost around double of a new H1n here in Poland and it's even hard to find used ones..

Another question.. Beside the BirdNET, is there any download-able program that you can recommend for sound-ID of the birds? I see a print screen in post #21, but I can't see any name anywhere?

Usually I use the Birdnet app or Merlin app on the phone, but when I start to record and have them on the computer anyway, would be easier to do it here..

Thanks

screenshot was using birdnet-analyser which can be downloaded onto PC. However, its been a bit of a labor of love getting here.
(following the instructions at GitHub - kahst/BirdNET-Analyzer: BirdNET analyzer for scientific audio data processing. )

 

[AGDK]

screenshot was using birdnet-analyser which can be downloaded onto PC. However, its been a bit of a labor of love getting here.
(following the instructions at GitHub - kahst/BirdNET-Analyzer: BirdNET analyzer for scientific audio data processing. )

Thanks.. I saw this page earlier, but it seem a bit confusing at first.. I'll try to read it carefully and see if I can figure it out..

 

[pppppvvvv]

Thanks.. I saw this page earlier, but it seem a bit confusing at first.. I'll try to read it carefully and see if I can figure it out..

Unfortunately, I'm less help than I might have been due to me installing it on an Ubuntu container within windows, and setting up a similar program (batdetect2!) For my bat sound analysis.

My advice, and what I did initially, was to follow his instructions for the windows install, and click on the birdnet-analyzer gui app.
That was quite straightforward and at least gets things working. It's free, so it's only time that you will be spending is only crumb of comfort I can offer!

 

[pppppvvvv]

For a recorder, what about the Zoom H1E, which is about to be released....
32 bit float, under £100, line-in for mic.
USB-C for streaming to android/IOS, so you can perhaps record onto SD card, whilst simultaneously streaming to Merlin Sound ID? (You might need more than 2 hands for this!)

Zoom H1essential 32-Bit Float Stereo Recorder at Gear4music

Zoom H1essential 32-Bit Float Stereo Recorder at Gear4music

www.gear4music.com

 

[S_Man]

BTW, I have heard that if there are signs of water ingress, you should never turn the device on, until you are sure it is perfectly dry.

True, but I only noticed the tiny droplets inside the display AFTER I couldn't switch it on...

A few month ago I already posted on this forum how I observed condensation inside the display, I suppose the lateral buttons are the issue (I'm using plugs to cover USB-C and 3.5mm!). At this time the F3 had spend the night under a tent (hide) so no water at all could have reached it, only air humidity! It was still working normally, but the display looked weird, from some angles.

It's just not a "field recorder", if even a roof is not enough...

Seawater is a real problem - not only do you need to get rid of the water by drying the equipment, but you also need to clean away any salt residue left behind.

100% seawater is maybe the worst, a few days after losing this F3 my waterproof phone refused to charge, with a message like "water in the charging port, clean/dry the port, etc." Of course it was completely dry, but had had contact with some seawater, I tried to clean it several time, rinse and repeat, but the only solution was a factory reset. And I never use it to take pictures underwater for example, it just had some contact with water!

 

[S_Man]

Thanks for your input Mono..

For now I use my Iphone, which works somehow fine, when I just ensure to stop up as soon as I hear something, so I assume anything will be better than that?..

I'll try to take a look on it and read some more.. Now I know better in which direction to search.. So thanks again!

Another option could be to use a good directional micro directly on your iPhone, like a Rode NTG - they have several models mostly for video, but some have very good specs for their (smaller than traditional mics) size.

Sorry if this has already been discussed, else you should find some material on the net about this option, I can't tell anything more as I don't own these models!

 

[Jon.Bryant]

Rather than writing-off the F2 and Clippy as an option, next time I go out in the field (and it is not too windy), I will see how the combination works for your scenario, and then report back. Hopefully I will be able to upload a few sample recordings.

I tried a couple of options today - the WildLife Acoustics SM Micro and the Zoom F2 with the Clippy EM272. Unfortunately bird life was a bit quite - I was probably too late in the day (but it is winter), and then the wind started to pick.

I tied the WA SM Micro to my rucksack shoulder strap with a cable tie, thinking it would suffice, but as Peter found out with the Audio Moth, the results were poor and ruined by rustling noises whenever I moved. Wind was also a problem with this recorder, which doe not have a wind shield.

For the F2 and the Clippy EM272, I put the recorder in my rucksack and clipped the lavalier mic (with a bumblebee wind cover) to the peak of my cap. The difference in the amount of noise it picked up from my movements was huge, and the recording was altogether better. That said, non of the recordings made with the setup were particularly good - the basic issue was that there was far too much general noise to signal. I doubt that it was mic noise - the mic has a published SNR of 80dB which is good. I also doubt it is preamp noise, as despite the low cost, the Zoom F2 is meant to also have low self noise.

I am not an expert on this, but I suspect that the issue is, that for an always-on recording (where you don't know where the vocal is coming from) and omni mic is ideal, but an omni mic will also pick-up ambient noise from all around, without rejecting any off-axis sound.

So, I suspect that if you are only interested in getting a recording for ID, then 'always-on' is a viable technique, and you could use the F2 (or similar) with the Clippy EM272 (which is probably the most sensitive and low noise mic for the cost). If you want a reasonable recording, then you will probably need to do a lot of clean up in post. I did try passing a recording through RX (but didn't spend much time on it) and it came out better.

Recording cleaned in post

View attachment Robin and Great Spotted Woodpecker (Denoised).wav

Original Recording

View attachment Robin and Great Spotted Woodpecker.wav

 

[Jon.Bryant]

so no water at all could have reached it, only air humidity!

Hmmm, I wonder if it was condensation? Lots of moist air expelled in a tent and normally temperatures drop, causing condensation to occur. I have thought my tent was leaking sometimes, there was so much condensation inside the tent.

I know for camera gear, they always advise keeping your camera in the bag when you go from places with different temperatures - say bringing a very cold camera into a warm house - just to avoid the risk of condensation... and as condensation can form wherever water vapor gets, most electronics will be vulnerable.

 

[Jon.Bryant]

Another option could be to use a good directional micro directly on your iPhone, like a Rode NTG

Is there an option to do this? There is no 3.5mm socket on an iPhone, so not sure how you would do this. Rode do some mic for iPhone (Mics for Iphone) as do Sure etc., but generally the specs are very sketchy - it is normally unclear if the mics are any more sensitive or have any lower self-noise than the built in mics (and it is very hard to find the specs for those as well!).

From some reports I have read, it has suggested that these mics are more directional, but are not more sensitive than the mics built into the phone.

I use a Sennheiser MKE 400 with a Tentacle Track E (you could use any small 32bit float recorder), and I am really impressed with this setup, given it's size... but for a videomic (like the MKE400) you need to have some means of support. I bought a SmallRig pistol grip with cold show, and some bars and a cheeseplate, so that the recorder and mic are both fixed to the pistol grip. But if you add recorder, mic and all the SmallRig bits and bobs, it ends up not being the cheapest solution.

 

[S_Man]

Is there an option to do this? There is no 3.5mm socket on an iPhone, so not sure how you would do this....
...
From some reports I have read, it has suggested that these mics are more directional, but are not more sensitive than the mics built into the phone.
...

You can find adaptors (chose the right one!), best way would be through USB-C anyway.

Some small video mics have specs getting closer to pro microphones costing 1000+, with alimentation, so they should offer an obvious advantage compared to integrated ones - even if Apple has a good reputation for sound (and images!).

Hmmm, I wonder if it was condensation? Lost of moist air expelled in a tent and normally temperatures drop, causing condensation to occur. I have thought my tent was leaking sometimes, where was so much condensation inside the tent.

It was without any doubt condensation happening inside the recorder, against the display surface. Not condensation from the tent.

 

[Jon.Bryant]

USB-C anyway

Are you assuming an iPhone 15, when you say this? Earlier models only have a lightning cable input, so as you say, you would need some kind of adaptor.

Anyway, I suppose it is academic as AGDK says he wants a separate recorder, as he uses his phone for other stuff.

It is also a shame that phones cannot record 32 bit float (I found a programme that records 32 bit, but it is not 32 bit float, so a waste of bits in my opinion - who needs a recording noise floor that low!). As there is not a 32bit float option, this means you have to fiddle with gain settings on your phone recording app, which I think would be a pain - especially without creating handling noise.

Dodotronics do a phone interface device (Song USB interface) which has a PiP 3.5mm stereo mic input, a headphone socket and a gain control knob. The device therefore makes your phone a lot easier to use in the field for non 32 bit float recording. But the device is 130 Euros and you don’t get a mic for that.

Not condensation from the tent.

No sorry, I wasn’t suggesting this. I was really meaning that the conditions that create condensation in your tent (warmer moist air and cold surface) could create condensation in any electrical equipment, particular on metal (and glass?) surfaces that are good conductors of heat and cool quickly. Probably best to keep kit in a camera bag or similar overnight, if there is a chance the equipment may get ‘cold’ during the night.

 

[Jon.Bryant]

what about the Zoom H1E, which is about to be released....
32 bit float, under £100

This looks great value.

The only thing I don’t like about all-in-ones, is that it is very hard to understand the specifications and to compare models. So for example how directional, sensitive and noisy are the built in mics, and (perhaps more of an issue for 16 and 24 bit recorders) how much gain can be applied - gain setting of 1 to 10 on some models, don’t really mean anything to me!

I have an old Sony PCM-M10 and a Roland R26, and using the built in mics, there is a world of difference. The older Sony is far more sensitive to distant birds than the (newer) Roland. I get the impression the Roland was designed to record at close range in front of a loud source (say a band).

Without clear and comparable specs, it then becomes an issue of recommendations. On this basis, someone will probably have to be the guinea pig, unless someone buys one from a good shop that has knowledgeable staff, who have trialed the equipment, and can provide solid recommendations.

 

[S_Man]

... the conditions that create condensation in your tent (warmer moist air and cold surface) could create condensation in any electrical equipment...

Again, NO! This would NOT happen if this equipment could withstand usual air conditions that can happen outside ("field" suggests "outside" to me, for some weird reason, not "dry air", but apparently I'm the only one here)...
If anything conditions in the tent were much dryer than outside since the floor is dry, there are no infiltration from outside condensation or rain, etc.! There is aeration, it's not a trap for humidity, just the opposite.
I chose all my mics so that they can function outside, and none of them has had any issue so far, but I can't find any recorder with similar specs as the F3 that does the same.
So for now I won't try to replace it as long as I don't find something that can be really used as a field recorder.

 

[Jon.Bryant]

it's not a trap for humidity

If you are sleeping in a relatively small tent, you are the source of humidity... I presume the like the rest of us you do breath and expel moist warm air. And inside tents it can get cold - the colder the temperature the less moisture can be held in the air, so condensation forms on cold things where there is a boundary layer of cold air. This is exactly why 'non double glazed' glass is often covered in condensation in a bedroom. If tents are not a humid environment, then why are fly sleeves often covered in condensation on the inside first thing in the morning?

Anyway, I was only trying to help you by suggesting what do do to prevent a repeat. I am not trying to get into an argument about what is 'field worthy' and what is not. If you would prefer to no replace your equipment, until an IP67 recorder comes on the market, then that's fine by me....

 

[Elkhornsun]

I have tried multiple self-powered mics on my iphone X and the sound recording is terrible to the point of being worthless. I rely 100% on my Sound Devices MixPre II audio recorder to record bird songs.