Stick or Twist? (1 Viewer)

[Jaff]

Make no mistake I love my current pair of binos, a pair of Zeiss 10x40 BGATs. Despite their age I think the image through them is touching on the performance of top end modern binoculars (having tried them side by side with older Swaro 8.5x42 EL's), they are also pretty lightweight and compact too and very important for me they have great eye relief for use with glasses. However....

The close focus of 4m frustrates me quite often for viewing Dragonflies and Butterflies etc. So I've had thoughts about maybe replacing them with binos that share all the good traits these have but with the added bonus of a closer min focus. Yet the point to this thread is can I achieve those aims with a budget of £350-450?
So would the likes of the Nikon Monarch's, Bushnell Elite ED's, Minox BL's and similar 'beta' binos in that price range or any 10x40ish binos I might be able to get s/h for the same money (Nikon HG's?) offer the same level of performance as my current binos or would they need to be more expensive ones to achieve my goal which to be clear I would not be prepared to do and would just simply stick with what I have.

Any thoughts welcome. :t:

 

[normjackson]

Have you considered sending them to OptRep to improve close focus?
http://www.opticalrepairs.com/binoculars_telescopes_repair_servicing.html

 

[Torview]

Yet the point to this thread is can I achieve those aims with a budget of £350-450?
:t:

In my opinion you can with a superb porro, the Opticron HR WP 10X42, truly astonishing, and only £240.

 

[Mark9473]

Do you really think improving the close focus from 4 m to 3 m makes much difference for watching butterflies and dragonflies?

 

[ronh]

Jaff,
The bright AK prisms and optically conservative length raise the Zeiss above the rest of the roof pack of that era. The mechanics and feel are legendary. Although not strictly waterproof, apparently you have had no problem with that. If yours has the P*coating, I don't think you could get any happier for the money you want to spend.

No big 10x glass is ever going to be ideal for insects up close. For that, get a Pentax Papillio. See the concurrent discussion of it, as well as many in the past.

And on this BF anniversary, thanks for your role as super moderator. We rarely feel the effects of you policing, but behave better and feel safer knowing its there.
Ron

 

[James Bean]

Jaff, Your Zeiss 10x40 BGAT is a ClassiC and you should never contemplate parting with it. Just buy a modestly-priced Pentax Papilio 6.5x21 and you will be able to view close-ups as near as 19 inches! Not only will you see Dragonflies and Butterflies, but follow the antics of ants and examine your toes in sharp detail. The Papilio is a stunning little model and a great credit to Pentax; I love mine, but it could never replace my 10x40 BGAT, but why should it?

 

[Jaff]

A useful link norm, thanks, but I doubt if they'd be able to improve them sufficiently enough as they probably shave some off the infinity end to improve the close end, can't see them getting under 3m. I carry loads of stuff as is so I only want one pair of binos with me rather than worrying about 2 so I'll give the Papilios a miss.

BTW mine are T* coated so quite early ones and not as legendary as you might think. I did try out some binos yday mainly the Opticron Verano BGA HD 10x42, Countryman BGA HD 10x42 & DBA Oasis S-Coat 10x42 as they were in that £350-£450 price range. I tried the Nikon's but immediately wrote them off because they had very poor eye relief. I think it was the cheapest of the bunch tho, the Countryman's, that had a ridiculously close focus somewhere in the region of 1.5m with the Oasis nearly there too. In bright conditions at least all 3 seemed roughly on par with mine although I think all 3 I looked through showed a little more purple fringing and a slightly cold colour cast. It was the Countryman's though that provided the best eye relief out of the 3 although none were as good as the Zeiss in that regard. Would be nice to try them again in dull conditions but the one that came out ahead for me was the Countryman's I think.

For the moment I think I'm sticking tho, thanx for the suggestions all. If I should reconsider my options at some point I'll bear these psots in mind. :t:

PS thanks for that touching tribute Ron. |:$|

 

[jaymoynihan]

Jaff, Your Zeiss 10x40 BGAT is a ClassiC and you should never contemplate parting with it. Just buy a modestly-priced Pentax Papilio 6.5x21 and you will be able to view close-ups as near as 19 inches! Not only will you see Dragonflies and Butterflies, but follow the antics of ants and examine your toes in sharp detail. The Papilio is a stunning little model and a great credit to Pentax; I love mine, but it could never replace my 10x40 BGAT, but why should it?

I would agree with James, other than i prefer the 8.5x Papilio.
Should mention though, not as a replacement for you Zeiss, but an addition. The Vortex Viper 8x32 HD. It is optically very nice and has a 3 foot close focus.

 

[typo]

I did try out some binos yday mainly the Opticron Verano BGA HD 10x42, Countryman BGA HD 10x42 & DBA Oasis S-Coat 10x42 as they were in that £350-£450 price range. I tried the Nikon's but immediately wrote them off because they had very poor eye relief. I think it was the cheapest of the bunch tho, the Countryman's, that had a ridiculously close focus somewhere in the region of 1.5m with the Oasis nearly there too. In bright conditions at least all 3 seemed roughly on par with mine although I think all 3 I looked through showed a little more purple fringing and a slightly cold colour cast. It was the Countryman's though that provided the best eye relief out of the 3 although none were as good as the Zeiss in that regard. Would be nice to try them again in dull conditions but the one that came out ahead for me was the Countryman's I think.

Earlier this year I spent some time comparing various Opticrons. I've tried the S-Coat and Aurora in the past, very nice, but skipped them on that occasion. Of the 8x42s, like you, I thought the Countryman HD the best. Maybe a fraction more CA and a bit more field curvature than the Verano HD for example, but the ergonomics and crispness of the view suited me better. The pair that really wowed me, and I later bought, was the 7x36 Classic. It may be hard to track down, but I imagine Opticron will have it at Bird Fair next week.

Good luck,

David

 

[brocknroller]

Jaff,

Being "fast" focal ratio optical systems, bins are always a compromise to begin with, but when a buyer expects one bin to do it all, that ups the number of compromises.

While you can find 10x roofs with good close focus, the trade-off is usually shallow depth perception. Laura from Optics4Birding has written about this in many of her reviews, and from my experience, it rings true. The Nikon 10x42 HG being a case in point. The 10x32 version gets you closer, but is even worse in regard to depth perception because of the super fast wheel (1/2 turn from cf to infinity).

Would you will be willing to step down to 8x? You'd get the close focus w/out losing as much depth perception.

Since you like Zeiss, you might consider the 8x32 FL, which for an alpha, can be found at pretty nice discounts. I would imagine once the 8x32 HT is out, prices might drop even lower.

If fast focusers don't mess with your focus accommodation, the Nikon 8x32 HG/L is a good buy. Look for a refurb for an ever better price.

They are heavier than the FL and do show more CA, so if you are susceptible, that might be a consideration. Close focus is 6 ft. Plus with the "roof illusion" at close focus, the image scale appears to be 10x. So butterflies are BIG. Amazing contrast and color saturation.

There are others that would fit the bill, but if watching butterflies and dragonflies is important to you, then consider an 8x32 model.

The 8.5x SV EL has a good close focus, a bit more magnification, and they say it can be held with just one hand, which is a good thing, because it will cost you an arm or a leg, so that will come in handy.

If you can swing it finanically, hold on to the 10x40 B/GAT rather than selling it for what's behind Door #2, because you might find that you miss your "old friend" and would have a hard time replacing it.

Brock

 

[Jaff]

Something I overlooked last time round but now that I've tried a pair if I do change it will be for the Hawke ED's. May not be the best built but that doesn't bother me much. Ticked all the boxes that matter to me.