Sticky rubber on numerous consumer products, not aimed at specific birding optics companies (1 Viewer)

[grackle314]

Curious to ask the range of sticky rubber people have experienced, not just within birding optics.

I have personal experience with several brands of cars having interior sticky buttons develop after about 5 years. Also I have sticky remote controls for stereo bought about a decade ago. I've not experienced the issue with any of my birding optics, but do read of others who have. I am wondering if there was a change in manufacturing regulations which led to new materials. It seems possible that the need to keep a product line running may introduce new materials on occasion which don't have sufficient time to know how the material will age in actual use over many years. Not sticky rubber, but product materials change, I recall that car paint suffered difficult delamination/peeling problems when auto manufacturers switched towards water-based paints.

I've got one car now from 2016 manufacture that will need all interior buttons replaced this year, at my expense. A partial listing of cars where sticky rubber has been encountered is at Renew your interior today with Sticky No More . I've experienced sticky buttons with two of the manufacturers listed there and also with BMW, which is not listed. I've heard BMW has solved the problem.

 

[Binocollector]

Plastics, especially soft ones, will always deteriorate over time. One exception to the rule seem to be the eye cups on my Romanian IOR 7x40 from 1980 which seem to be in perfect condition and are soft and pliable. But depending on the mixture - softeners evaporate and plastic gets gooey or brittle. I use Vinylex on all the older binos with rubber armor - can also be used for PUR and car interior as well as vinyl records (for which it was invented). Works pretty well so far.

 

[wllmspd]

Feet on bits of equipment at work, bino coating, case foam packing…. Happens with time unless someone messed up the recipe.

Peter

 

[Hermann]

Curious to ask the range of sticky rubber people have experienced, not just within birding optics.

I have personal experience with several brands of cars having interior sticky buttons develop after about 5 years. Also I have sticky remote controls for stereo bought about a decade ago. I've not experienced the issue with any of my birding optics, but do read of others who have.

What eactly are we talking about here? Sticky rubber or sticky plastics? I seriously doubt the sticky buttons in cars you've experienced are made of rubber. I think they're rather made of plastics that's supposed to look and feel like rubber.

IME experience rubber doesn't get sticky. It may crack after many years of use, it may become discoloured, but it doesn't get sticky. For instance, I know an old couple I meet quite a lot on my local patch, with old Zeiss and Leica binoculars, both ~40 years old. The rubber armour isn't sticky. Nor are the eyecups and the rubber armour of my old Zeiss binoculars dating back to 1980.

Another example: Plastics are used extensively in modern hiking boots to make them "softer". After ~10 years the plastic deteriorates rapidly, even if the boots haven't been used a lot, so the rubber soles simply fall off. The rubber soles are often still perfectly in order.

I am wondering if there was a change in manufacturing regulations which led to new materials. It seems possible that the need to keep a product line running may introduce new materials on occasion which don't have sufficient time to know how the material will age in actual use over many years.

Another (at least as likely) explanation is that the manufacturers switched to "modern" plastics for cost reasons. High quality rubber is expensive. And of course they didn't test the "modern" plastic materials long enough.

Plastics, especially soft ones, will always deteriorate over time. One exception to the rule seem to be the eye cups on my Romanian IOR 7x40 from 1980 which seem to be in perfect condition and are soft and pliable.

Those eyecups are most likely made of rubber. Not plastics.

Hermann

 

[grackle314]

What eactly are we talking about here? Sticky rubber or sticky plastics? I seriously doubt the sticky buttons in cars you've experienced are made of rubber. I think they're rather made of plastics that's supposed to look and feel like rubber.

Hi Hermann, you are correct, the term "rubber" as I am using it here is broader current usage than the more technical term. Maybe one should call it "rubbery" material, much of which may fit the category of sticky plastics. I don't know the chemistry involved.

 

[Binocollector]

Those eyecups are most likely made of rubber. Not plastics.

The problem is -- not everything we call "rubber" is actually natural rubber. I highly doubt any modern day bino armor is made of natural rubber.
And PUR polyurethane -- which is what fake leather jackets are made of for example, will deteriorate, even it if seems soft like rubber.
The IOR eyecups also don't look or feel like natural rubber btw. And the older "rubber" armors on the IOR or old Komz models show the same signs of deterioration as old polyurethane. So I am guessing, those are not real rubber either.
On the IOR the eyecups and the armor are definitely different material.

 

[Binastro]

My experience is that rubber armour goes white.

The c.2000 Canon 18x50 IS shoes signs of white in hidden areas.

The Fujinon 14x40 IS was completely white, but I think from extensive sea use. That is why it cost £120.
It took about an hour to clean off with plain water.

The most notorious are probably Minolta AF cameras from about 1985 where all are white to some degree.

But with patience this whiteness can be removed if one bothers to do it.

I have had some sticky products but cannot remember which.
They are a pain to use.

Regards,
B.

 

[exup]

I too have found that lots of products are going sticky.

A TV set top box remote control and a fancy soft touch corkscrew are two items.

What is interesting is that the corkscrew was in a sealed box for many years and never opened or touched by a human.....so the theory of hand oils, deet, etc definitely don't apply in this case. It was in the roof space and mostly kept in the dark. The other thread (Richard's repair shop and old Canons) about dark possibly causing the sticky problem could be valid in some cases??
I might expose my soft touch Canon 12x36 IS bins to sunlight occasionally to potentially counteract the phenomena.

A couple of decades ago there was legislation that resulted in some solvents and other compounds being phased out of manufacturing processes. I don't know the details now, but the result was that substitutes had to be used that were not as good. The product suffered at the time. Perhaps this is similar...... A compound banned and a suitable substitute has not been found. Or, perhaps it has been found and we are simply seeing the old, temporary solution products failing today.

 

[ErikR]

I too have found that lots of products are going sticky.

A TV set top box remote control and a fancy soft touch corkscrew are two items.

What is interesting is that the corkscrew was in a sealed box for many years and never opened or touched by a human.....so the theory of hand oils, deet, etc definitely don't apply in this case. It was in the roof space and mostly kept in the dark. The other thread (Richard's repair shop and old Canons) about dark possibly causing the sticky problem could be valid in some cases??
I might expose my soft touch Canon 12x36 IS bins to sunlight occasionally to potentially counteract the phenomena.

A couple of decades ago there was legislation that resulted in some solvents and other compounds being phased out of manufacturing processes. I don't know the details now, but the result was that substitutes had to be used that were not as good. The product suffered at the time. Perhaps this is similar...... A compound banned and a suitable substitute has not been found. Or, perhaps it has been found and we are simply seeing the old, temporary solution products failing today.

This is similar to my experience.

Today I threw away a 20+ years old Samsonite garment case due to the plastic black handle turning white, sticky and falling to bits. Same story with a brief case from the same series. I did not try to find a replacement due to many years gone by.

It seems some plastic compounds age poorly. The case in question was stored in cool darkness for many years.

 

[Harry Stottle]

During a sale I bought a couple of pairs of leather shoes with PU plastic soles as spares and put them in the garage. After about 7 or 8 years, I re-discovered them. Shortly afterwards, I decided to wear a pair to an event. The soles were a little tacky but otherwise they looked perfect. After driving for about an hour, the soles started to break up when operating the pedals! I had to pull over and found the soles just fell away from the leather uppers to which they were stitched!
Is Swarovski's armour PU?

 

[SteveClark]

Is any of this related to the use of DEET insecticide perhaps?

 

[Yarkho]

Sorry to be blunt, but why on Earth would you think Harry Stottle applied DEET to his shoe soles?

Really.

 

[SteveClark]

By 'this' I mean the whole thread - but you be as blunt as you want.

 

[Hermann]

³

Is any of this related to the use of DEET insecticide perhaps?

No, it's not. It's a process known as polymer degradation that affects many types of polymers.

BTW, DEET is not an insecticide.

Hermann

 

[SteveClark]

Thanks Hermann. As soon as I posted I realised I'd said insecticide rather than 'insect repellant' but I left it as I thought people would understand what I meant. Lots of people (including birders) don't know that DEET is bad for many plastic items.

 

[Yarkho]

Many of us know that DEET is also a plasticizer.

Sorry for being blunt previously, but DEET has been blamed here for years for degradation of, for example, the armor of Swarovski binoculars, with plenty of statements to the contrary. Yet every time we are discussing plastic degradation the DEET comes up; it is a bit tiring.

 

[42za]

The cheap synthetics that are used today to cut costs and meet "environmentally friendly" requirements are to blame.
I have 50 plus year old camera's and binoculars that are still in excellent cosmetic condition.
It can be done.

 

[BirderNL]

Many of us know that DEET is also a plasticizer.

Sorry for being blunt previously, but DEET has been blamed here for years for degradation of, for example, the armor of Swarovski binoculars, with plenty of statements to the contrary. Yet every time we are discussing plastic degradation the DEET comes up; it is a bit tiring.

Same goes for the continous discussion about the sticky Swarovski armor... (which you try to make again a topic in this thread)

 

[BirderNL]

The cheap synthetics that are used today to cut costs and meet "environmentally friendly" requirements are to blame.
I have 50 plus year old camera's and binoculars that are still in excellent cosmetic condition.
It can be done.

Certainly it can be done, with all the consequences for our environment... But hey, who cares.... You don't, that's for sure.

 

[Patudo]

No one is compelling you to spend your hard earned on NLs or other Swarovski binoculars. There are plenty of 50 year old binoculars out there, some of which can be obtained pretty cheaply, if you want to make an anti-environmentalist statement. Although if you want the ones with swastikas on them, those will normally cost more.