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Svbony and Retevis - RED ALERT!!! (1 Viewer)

looksharp65

Well-known member
On Sep 13, 2022 I ordered a Svbony SV202 10x50 ED.

Item arrived after just a couple of days despite the message from E**y saying about three weeks.
Very first impression was not so bad, but then I found the binoculars behaving strangely. I had to move the diopter incessantly and could still not quite find the sharpness.
Then I found excessive CA with high-contrast backlighting. Then the right and the left barrel appeared to have very different colour rendition - a pale yellow house looked peach-coloured in one and greyish green in the other.

I can induce double-vision voluntarily which helps me to assess collimation problems. None such were found this way, but there seemed to be a minute divergence between the optical axises because each barrel showed a slight bit more of its lateral field than the other did their medial field edges. No height deviation could be detected. If anything, a very slight rotation of the images could be traced. But when I turned the binoculars backwards, things became apparent. It was impossible to get a unified image with consistent field edges.
For comparison, my Meostar 8x32 is slightly out of collimation height-wise (I can handle that) but looking through it backwards did not cause any double-vision or dislocated field edges.

The streetlamp test was extremely bad. Huge rainbow-coloured circle sectors or fans radiating out beside the light sources. Looking into the eyepieces at about 35 degrees angle to the optical axis made the fans disappear. As you can tell, this sample isn't worth a nickel.

The next day I contacted the *b*y seller, retevis.eu, for a return and refund. Sep 18, his first reaction was to urge me to cancel the return process saying he'd ask the technicians as there could be some [mumbo-jumbo] "problems with the parameters". I replied on Sep 19 that I had not yet taken action, as I was awaiting instructions regarding shipping and such, but that it was my intention to return and be reimbursed.

His reply on Sep 21, translated from German, as follows:
"Do you consent to us returning your product to the warehouse and having the warehouse staff inspect and repair it for you? If it is indeed a product quality problem, we can issue a new package for you. Do you agree? Please cancel the platform return request first. Please don't worry, we will solve the problem for you. And we can offer you a discount on your next purchase of our products."

Suffice to say, his reply wasn't greeted with utmost delight from my side. I made it very clear that a repair or exchange henceforward would be out of the question. Then he wanted to know more about the faults, asking for images to his own email, and asking me to allow him to send a replacement.
I took photos of the very obvious failure in the streetlamp test to that email address, along with a detailed verbal exposition of the binocular's numerous faults, and that I might be willing to accept an exchange after all.
Three hours later, I received a message that the return was accepted. Later that day I got this message to my email:

"Hello my friend Thanks for your patient reply. I have asked our technicians to check the problem as you said.
thank you so much for your suggestion. If the technician replies, we can modify this error to meet your usage requirements. I would also like to know if this is a general problem or just a problem with the product you received. I will send you 1 new package again. Also, I purchased a DHL return label on the platform for you. But according to the zip code you provided, when I purchased the return label, the zip code was wrong.
I'm just going to tell you about the return label first. If the return label doesn't work in the future, I can repurchase it for you again. You do not need to return the package now.

Have a nice day."

The return label's zip code was indeed faulty, as sender country was set to Germany and not Sweden. Sep 30 I asked for a new return label. Oct 4 I got the message that they were out of office, but that I should receive another label Oct 6. On Oct 7, he asked which logistics company we normally use in Sweden and proposed that I should cover the return fee myself, later to be reimbursed. I asked for another label and got a UPS label, the original one was DHL.

He has asked at least twice if the binoculars and the box appear as new, which strengthens my suspicion that they ship previously returned items to new customers.

I dispatched the binoculars and went to the platform to mark the item as shipped, which was not possible because it was linked to the original, faulty label.
They arrived at their warehouse in Hamburg, DE on Oct 14. After two weeks I sent a message asking about the refund. Another week later I tried the same to his email rather than on the **ay platform. Since the seller apparently thinks things will go away if he keeps quiet, I have instead posted this and also contacted the platform.

On October 12, I got a message from E*** saying that since the item wasn't returned within the specified time-frame, hence case is now closed.
Now I'm 2400 SEK short and I don't even have the useless binoculars. The seller has consistently done his utmost to escape the return process and the refund, all the time with his cheerful "Don't worry".

I think this slow-motion trainwreck excuse for professional customer care and product quality speaks for itself. Obviously, not every sample leaving CN is this bad (I have the good Svbony 406P ED as a good example), but the failure rate is sky-high. When factoring in politics, and how the crappy samples mean a huge loss for the environment, it is painfully clear that cheap Chinese optics are a lottery with big hazards. In this particular case, 'fraudulent' comes to mind when describing Retevis.
While I'm usually a meek man, I have to restrain myself not to reveal my inner thoughts and feelings. 'Furious' doesn't even begin to describe my feelings.


//L
 

looksharp65

Well-known member
I think it is quite obvious which image is taken through the Svbony and which through the Meostar HD 12x50 🙄

tmp-cam-3422031022089564471.jpg
 

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Binastro

Well-known member
Sorry to read this sad tale.

Personally, I buy nothing from the internet.

The photo does seem interesting, perhaps from a horror sci-fi movie.

I do think some firms sell faulty goods as new, and suspect rejects from manufacturers instead of being destroyed, somehow end up being sold.
This may or may not be with the makers knowledge.

With the numerous completely fraudulent adverts on the internet, such as 30x60 8x21 binoculars or 160mm aperture binoculars, which are probably undersized 80mm binoculars, the whole internet world needs adequate trading standards.
But this doesn't happen, and fraud will never cease.

Isn't there an ombudsman for e--y?

Regards,
B.
 

looksharp65

Well-known member
B., I have filed an appeal to them. Seems there is nothing to lose anymore. It is sad because apparently some samples are very good and even impressive.
But there is a cost with dealing with the Chinese that goes far beyond singular events of dissatisfaction and disputes, a cost nearly impossible to evade regardless how hard we try. As I wrote to someone who holds the Svbony bins in high regard:

"To me it's extremely obvious that staying clear from buying cheap Chinese products is not about snobbery. Not for a second. It is about not participating in a lottery with bad odds because of quality control apparently performed by [CENSORED] , huge risk of getting fooled and tricked, and losing one's money.
It is about not contributing to the astronomically-sized garbage piles of unusable crap, drenched with Uighur blood, and built with Mother Earth's last resources by child labour. These words of mine are carefully chosen, but my thoughts go a lot further in contempt for those people."

//L
 

Ted Y.

Forum member
Supporter
Canada
It is about not participating in a lottery with bad odds because of quality control apparently performed by
Probably selectively performed. Hence the lottery.
It is about not contributing to the astronomically-sized garbage piles of unusable crap
And pay again for disposing it.

This can be about any "cheap" manufactured product and it think is not the monopoly of a specific country.
But if a demand exists, it will be an offer.
 

Maljunulo

Well-known member
Unfortunately, one gets what one pays for, but this does seem to be a really egregious example.

The behavior of the vendor is inexcusable.
 

Binastro

Well-known member
If the appeal fails, then there is still the possibility of getting a fair sample of the binocular from the seller.

It is more complicated regarding Chinese goods.

I still use Canon A720 IS cameras for general photography.
The Canon A 710 IS was made in Japan, the A720 IS says made in China.

I have several A 720 IS bought secondhand.
Perhaps two have failed because of electronics.
One took 174,000 single images before the battery/card door hinges wore out.
The camera still works.
The only problem with these 2007? cameras is that the date memory needs a small coin battery. These fail after about ten years. They are easy to change.
The point is that Canon Japan is in charge here even in China.

My Canon G15 and G16 are I think made in Japan. Fine cameras.

Chinese made smart phones, laptops etc. from the big Western makers have high standards, because control is from outside China.

It is the goods that are solely Chinese that are the problem.

Firms that buy from China and check every binocular in the U.K. are reliable.

Hopefully, we in the West will now increase home production of electronics so that China no longer has leverage.

The world generally is a bit of a mess, but hopefully the future will be O.K.

Regards,
B.
 

BKoh

Well-known member
Singapore
Sorry to read about the problems. Any chance you can dispute the charge with your credit card issuer? Due to non-delivery of functional goods/services?

For future reference, Chinese-brand products are best bought through channels that offer easy returns, such as Amazon. I have the Svbony SV406P 80mm scope and the SV202 8x32 bino, both without issues, but bought via Lazada where I had the right to return the products.
 

Binocollector

Well-known member
Germany
I had a similarly awful experience with another Chinese store brand. A bino I bought was full of dust and not just small particles either. After a few mails back and forth they accused me of having opened the bino which of course I hadn't. They even had pictures of the bino with the screws in a different position. So I can only assume that they manipulated the screws after taking the pics and before packaging to have "plausible deniability".
That experience led me to not buy Chinese optics anymore, no matter how good some of them are for the money. But it's not worth the hassle.
Luckily my Svbonys in 8x32 and 10x50 work fine.
 

corvid-8

Well-known member
Correct me if I am wrong but if payed by PayPal (never use anything else on eBay) you are protected by said PayPal as THEY pay then they get your money from your bank/card etc (as arraigned). Therefore go through the eBay / PayPal GRIEVANCE PROCEDURE and if no result from the seller Paypal should refund you and THEY proceed/ or not with getting the money from the seller.
All this is on the eBay/Paypal websites.
You must go through their sequence and time frames. Keep ALL correspondence with seller and eBay and PayPal.
 

Foss

Well-known member
United States
Sorry to read about the problems. Any chance you can dispute the charge with your credit card issuer? Due to non-delivery of functional goods/services?

For future reference, Chinese-brand products are best bought through channels that offer easy returns, such as Amazon. I have the Svbony SV406P 80mm scope and the SV202 8x32 bino, both without issues, but bought via Lazada where I had the right to return the products.
Good advice for any new binocular purchase online, regardless of price or country of origin.
 

looksharp65

Well-known member
Thank you all! With 99.6% positive feedback for the store, and badged with the platform's 'Money back guarantee', furthermore a shop that appears to be Svbony's official store, I never imagined anything like this could happen. If the platform rejects my appeal, I'll continue by going through Paypal.
As far as I can see, my appeal isn't visible after I sent it. Everything else is saved for reference.

//L
 

exup

Well-known member
United Kingdom
I have had 2 issues with Svbony kit.

A SV202 10x42 had a small black fleck at the edge of view and a mini SV410 ED spotting scope had a similar issue.

Both bought through Amazon UK and resolved by RETEKESS. They replaced the binoculars and the zoom eyepiece in the scope.

I was happy with the customer service and would have no problems buying Svbony again.
 

looksharp65

Well-known member
'All is well that ends well'. The big platform issued a refund. The whole pattern of actions from the seller is inexplicable, given the overall fine customer feedback. Also, it would have been interesting to learn how that sample could be such a mess.

I have bought lots of optics used, here and through various ad sites, and it comes to my mind that I never received a faulty binocular that was used and sold by a private individual. But a couple of times when I bought new stuff from a store, I received crap.

Henceforth, I will not be tempted to follow the siren's song when I hear about new, fantastic, cheap optics even if many people are satisfied customers.
The effort and the annoyance when dealing with problems as per above are certainly not worth it. YMMV.
Thank you all!

//L
 

Binocollector

Well-known member
Germany
it comes to my mind that I never received a faulty binocular that was used and sold by a private individual. But a couple of times when I bought new stuff from a store, I received crap.

Henceforth, I will not be tempted to follow the siren's song when I hear about new, fantastic, cheap optics even if many people are satisfied customers.
I buy a lot of used Japanese binos from the 70s and 80s, sometimes older. About half or more of those are misaligned but always sold as "used, in working order". It's no problem for me to fix them, most of the time.
Despite the fact that my Svbonys work just fine, there are other binos by reputed brands that are just as good or better and are affordable. Like my, Made in the Philippines, Fujinon KF 10x42. It even shows less CA than the Svbony SV202 10x50 despite not being advertised as "ED"-glass. Too bad the KF-series seems to be discontinued. Some of those were even "Made in Japan". But the KF-series came from all over the place, some models made in China, some Philippines, some Japan.
 

rdnzl

Not Sure.
United States
Sorry to read this sad tale.

Personally, I buy nothing from the internet.

The photo does seem interesting, perhaps from a horror sci-fi movie.

I do think some firms sell faulty goods as new, and suspect rejects from manufacturers instead of being destroyed, somehow end up being sold.
This may or may not be with the makers knowledge.

With the numerous completely fraudulent adverts on the internet, such as 30x60 8x21 binoculars or 160mm aperture binoculars, which are probably undersized 80mm binoculars, the whole internet world needs adequate trading standards.
But this doesn't happen, and fraud will never cease.

Isn't there an ombudsman for e--y?

Regards,
B.
I buy a lot from Amazon. You get 30 days to return, with no hassles.
 

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