That of which shall not be spoken...... (1 Viewer)

[oldfortyfive]

I have the little pen sized Zeiss 5x10 and a couple of Vortex ones. I use the little Zeiss when I travel for work. The others are just handy to leave in convenient places. Surprisingly the little Zeiss works well with glasses. Monoculars have their place.

 

[etudiant]

Denco's recommendation for a Docter 8x21 is a good one, this is a very compact and versatile design that can be made into a passable field microscope with various auxiliary lenses.
The glass was called the Turmon in the original Zeiss version. Docter has continued production of a modernized model with better coatings. Ebay sometimes offers these, usually at affordable prices, but beware of knockoffs here as well.
Minox monoculars come in several versions, including a 8x16 and a flat 8x T8 variant with folded optics in a cell phone like case. Their 8x25 macroscope is excellent, very close focus and waterproof, just noticeably more bulky with the porro dogleg.

 

[CliveP]

Eschenbach seem to have a version of the Doctor 8x21 so I wonder what the difference in optical quality is as the Esc is more my current budget at half the price.

I like the idea of a monocular having a close focus for some useful macro ability which would rule the Doctor and RSPB out. These have close focus in meters compared with inches for the others and my bins can already do meters or inches in the case of the Papilio.

So my conclusion currently is that I probably need two although it's not exactly need. One like the Doctor or RSPB and another like the Specwell. Exactly like bins, not one monocular will do all, so it may lead to starting another collection .

There is one which seems to combine the two things though the Vixen Monokular 8x20 though not water proof like the RSPB.

Saw a Zeiss review describing it as very average.

Basically lots of options but none just right.

I'll keep it in mind for now. At least I understand the options a bit better now. Meanwhile hoping someday soon to get the 10x25 that were posted on the 21st Dec with a deadline of 5th Jan3

 

[John Dracon]

CliveP - Your thread on the monocular interests me. It begins with almost a Shakespearean quality - not quite Hamlet but its legitimacy brings out comments from the "Crown" (Lee) and the penal colony where England sent many of its bad boys (Rathaus), and even our erudite American (Brock) joins in the fray.

Why do monoculars exist? Obviously, for many reasons. My sire, a Greek immigrant escaping grinding poverty, came to the US in 1910, after shoveling coal on a tramp steamer on the Athens to Buenos Aries run for several years earning passage. He was following four older brothers who prospered in the US. My father didn't, and after creating four children during the depression, he and my mother divorced when I was five months old. He eventually returned to Greece and died there.

My father would have found a monocular useful. Why? He was blind in one eye, the result of a Damascus shotgun blowing up when he attempted to shoot some kind of wolf attacking some goats and sheep he was herding.
Blindness almost disqualified him from seeking citizenship back then.

I only saw him several times and remember his bad eye. Hollywood would have made him a character actor.

Then, a favorite nephew of mine suddenly and in-explicitly lost the sight in one eye. He was a bird watcher who found the extra barrel unnecessary. A most pragmatic sort of fellow - an electrical engineer. So I had a much used set of Kern IF Army model 8x30 with one bad side and made a monocular out of the good side and presented that to him. This he really liked and returned to his birding.

As circumstances occurred, my first piece of optics was a Bushnell 7x35 monocular purchased when I went to the ranch in 1951 and attended Buffalo High. (there had to be a Buffalo High connection in this post) I was just learning to hunt big game, then and the ranch was isolated and adjacent to the mountains. This was a game rich area, abounding with mule deer, elk, bears (not grizzlies), prong horn antelope, and countless ducks and geese.

The bag limits were generous, game wardens rarely seen, and hunting surpassing anything going on today. There were only a few four-wheel drive vehicles in the Judith Basin. The ranch had a new Jeep model with a metal cab. Top speed was 35 mph.

No posted land existed, and the U.S. Forest Service land was open to anyone. In short it was a hunter's paradise and a perfect place for a gangling 15 year old lad to land and try out his new .300 Savage rifle on big game animals.

When blizzards would roar in, that was the end of anyone coming to the mountains to hunt. The county roads would drift in, and then it was walking or even better, riding horses when hunting. The ranch I lived on was a horse outfit. Vehicles couldn't get anywhere. But horses could.

My monocular was always around my neck, with it tucked inside my shirt or jacket. I didn't need binoculars. Yet after several hard seasons of hunting, my monocular eventually met its demise. Chasing animals was not legal, even back then, but as my monocular inevitably banged against the saddle horn too many times, eventually it caused the prisms to chip and move. And my attempt to repair the damage proved futile. It was 35 miles to the closest place where one could seek assistance.

So my monocular was "retired" but over the years a host of different ones came into my possession, and maintained their usefullness.

(to be continued)

 

[Troubador]

In the bad old days before the introduction of the close-focusing binoculars that we all love -O) Troubadoris and myself relied on monculars from Specwell and Monomic to give us decent views of dragonflies and butterflies.

Learning how to capture a view of these often fast-moving creatures was a slow process (this was before the introduction of 'steep learning curves') but we got there in the end. Naturally when birds presented themselves while we had monocs in our hands we used them for birding too, but we both agreed that binocular vision was the best way for both of us when viewing birds.

The discovery of Zeiss's excellent 6x18 T* occurred just as we were beginning to explore inter-tidal marine life which intrigued us because much of it is there all year round, not just for spring and summer.

Folding pocket bins give me a more usable and satisfactory view of most normal subjects but a monoc is undeniably lighter, more compact and easier to slip into a shirt or jacket pocket when a more discrete 'carry' is required.

And now:

PREVIOUSLY on John Dracon , there was Buffalo High, hunting, riding and chipped prisms and now for the next episode.....


Lee

 

[Binastro]

I find that the Zeiss 5x10 pen monocular only works with glasses. It has too much eye relief without bracing it on my glasses, which I have to wear using it.

 

[ceasar]

In the bad old days before the introduction of the close-focusing binoculars that we all love -O) Troubadoris and myself relied on monculars from Specwell and Monomic to give us decent views of dragonflies and butterflies.

....................................................................

The discovery of Zeiss's excellent 6x18 T* occurred just as we were beginning to explore inter-tidal marine life which intrigued us because much of it is there all year round, not just for spring and summer.



And now:

PREVIOUSLY on John Dracon , there was Buffalo High, hunting, riding and chipped prisms and now for the next episode.....


Lee

The Zeiss 6x18 draw tube monocular is a handy item but more useful for normal viewing with its great DOF and decent FOV. You hardly have to move the draw tube outward for most viewing and looking at things a few feet away doesn't require much extension at all. The trouble begins when you want to use it on something real small like the printing on the dial of a watch that you have to get close to. Then you have to pull the drawtube out real far and move it all over the place to find it so you can read it. That isn't much fun.:C

I'm almost sorry I didn't get the little 4x12 instead which has a huge FOV.

http://www.cameralandny.com/optics/zeiss.pl?page=zeissmonocular522050

As for John's next episode--how about "Buffalo Chips?"

Bob

 

[CliveP]

I'm almost sorry I didn't get the little 4x12 instead which has a huge FOV.

Bob

Bingo. I think you tipped me into action Ceasar. Can't be bothered waiting on auctions or can't buy the top gear so I thought I would actually go for a 4x12 by Viking to get me started so that's ordered for slow post.

It's definitely going to be easy to carry. 3mm exit pupil seems better than a lot of others oh and the 12.5 deg fov.

Ok I don't expect it to be that crystal but I hope it isn't terrible. It will give me some idea of how useful they may be and then maybe I'll look to something better later or maybe even another Viking with different mag.

If I really want distance viewing then I have plenty of bins but this may be useful otherwise for various things or around the house. I am a bit short sighted and my near sight has been getting worse lately also. It's definitely going to be something new for/to me so should be fun:-O (why is that head purple?) I don't get some of these icons. :eat: What's that about?

Guess this one I get. Cheers for helping me decide B

 

[CliveP]

Ok just finishing the stuff from Italy

and so........

I love the DM (sometimes). The comments 33333333.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3381257/The-picture-sums-Manchester-New-Year-s-Eve.html

No further comment8-P

 

[Rathaus]

CliveP - Your thread on the monocular interests me. It begins with almost a Shakespearean quality - not quite Hamlet but its legitimacy brings out comments from the "Crown" (Lee) and the penal colony where England sent many of its bad boys (Rathaus), and even our erudite American (Brock) joins in the fray.

Why do monoculars exist? Obviously, for many reasons. My sire, a Greek immigrant escaping grinding poverty, came to the US in 1910, after shoveling coal on a tramp steamer on the Athens to Buenos Aries run for several years earning passage. He was following four older brothers who prospered in the US. My father didn't, and after creating four children during the depression, he and my mother divorced when I was five months old. He eventually returned to Greece and died there.

My father would have found a monocular useful. Why? He was blind in one eye, the result of a Damascus shotgun blowing up when he attempted to shoot some kind of wolf attacking some goats and sheep he was herding.
Blindness almost disqualified him from seeking citizenship back then.

I only saw him several times and remember his bad eye. Hollywood would have made him a character actor.

Then, a favorite nephew of mine suddenly and in-explicitly lost the sight in one eye. He was a bird watcher who found the extra barrel unnecessary. A most pragmatic sort of fellow - an electrical engineer. So I had a much used set of Kern IF Army model 8x30 with one bad side and made a monocular out of the good side and presented that to him. This he really liked and returned to his birding.

As circumstances occurred, my first piece of optics was a Bushnell 7x35 monocular purchased when I went to the ranch in 1951 and attended Buffalo High. (there had to be a Buffalo High connection in this post) I was just learning to hunt big game, then and the ranch was isolated and adjacent to the mountains. This was a game rich area, abounding with mule deer, elk, bears (not grizzlies), prong horn antelope, and countless ducks and geese.

The bag limits were generous, game wardens rarely seen, and hunting surpassing anything going on today. There were only a few four-wheel drive vehicles in the Judith Basin. The ranch had a new Jeep model with a metal cab. Top speed was 35 mph.

No posted land existed, and the U.S. Forest Service land was open to anyone. In short it was a hunter's paradise and a perfect place for a gangling 15 year old lad to land and try out his new .300 Savage rifle on big game animals.

When blizzards would roar in, that was the end of anyone coming to the mountains to hunt. The county roads would drift in, and then it was walking or even better, riding horses when hunting. The ranch I lived on was a horse outfit. Vehicles couldn't get anywhere. But horses could.

My monocular was always around my neck, with it tucked inside my shirt or jacket. I didn't need binoculars. Yet after several hard seasons of hunting, my monocular eventually met its demise. Chasing animals was not legal, even back then, but as my monocular inevitably banged against the saddle horn too many times, eventually it caused the prisms to chip and move. And my attempt to repair the damage proved futile. It was 35 miles to the closest place where one could seek assistance.

So my monocular was "retired" but over the years a host of different ones came into my possession, and maintained their usefullness.

(to be continued)

I was going to add the 'except for one eyed users' but didn't.

It still begs the question that, if one were to unfortunately lose the use of one eye, would they toss away their excellent binoculars to purchase a likely inferior monocular instead?

Is there a monocular which can exceed the excellent bins we see on here? Eg: Is there a better monocular scenario (at a similar power) to that of just using one eyepiece of a Nikon e2 etc?

Cheers
Rathaus

 

[Maljunulo]

It still begs the question that, if one were to unfortunately lose the use of one eye, would they toss away their excellent binoculars to purchase a likely inferior monocular instead?

Cheers
Rathaus

I wouldn't.

You lose too much stability, and too much in image processing with only one signal.

So to give up both stability, and optical performance would be at best, "unwise."

 

[John Dracon]

Rath - In response to your question, most monoculars cannot compete with the current alpha binoculars, unless several variables are included: weight, size, intended purpose, etc.

A past thread discussed extenders, which are just another form of a monocular. And so are spotting scopes, a sophisticated kind of monocular. The monocular thread dealt with those extenders, roof, porro, and Galilean which are fixed on one barrel to give a modest increase in magnifcation, 2x, 2.5x, and 3x.

Our informed Henry Link referenced his experience with Zeiss's 3x12 B, a very small monocular. So I bought one and found that it is every thing Henry said it was: versatile, superb optics, very compact and useful.

Looking at monoculars today we find a bewildering assortment being offered the public - cheap and sometimes very expensive. What ever fancy humans need to satisfy, the market place will fill.

At my large bay window overlooking the north fork of the Smith River with hay meadows and mountains for a backdrop, a panorama which is truly remarkable, stands a tripod rigged for spotting scopes, binoculars, and extenders. Sometimes there are two tripods set up and on occasion, three,
when I'm doing some comparisons with the optical instruments I have gathered over the years.

As I find myself in what we call our declining years, I yearn for simplicity, not compexity, Monoculars help fill that gap. Whether it is returning to my youth where every circumstance was a form of adventure, I'm not sure. Perhaps it is.

I have a B&L 7x35 monocular and case. It has the proper coatings, although it is not the Zephyr. When an extender is attached, it is a superb instrument, comparable to any alpha of similar power

My favorite monocular is the Zeiss 8x30 B, discontinued many years ago. These can still be found at bargain prices. The Zeiss being a porro is ergonomically delightful to use. In what way? Gripping the Zeiss fills the right hand allowing the thumb to rest against the cheek bone and the forefinger against the eye brow. The left hand can do the focusing. Or vice versa. The steadiness created is astounding. Try holding a roof monocular the same way. It doesn't work.

When Zeiss discontinued that model, they abandoned a classic. It is beautifully finished, and the optics are more than decent. Moreover, it is highly dust and water repellant. A real optical gem!

Find yourself one, Rath, and give it a try.

John

 

[John Dracon]

OK Bob - Buffalo chips? Buffalo (American Bison) in general? Sure, I can speak to both. My matriculation from Buffalo High was just a prelude to keeping both in my life where I was continuously connected to buffalo.

People who know little about what are called buffalo chips find their use amusing. But amusement really is because of understandable ignorance.

The fecal material from ruminants have been used in a variety of ways throughout the world by human for centuries. On the American prairie where trees exist only along water courses. the native Americans, pioneers, hide hunters, adventurers, etc. used the chips as fuel for heating and cooking.

They burn hot and clean, containing among other things methane gas. Chips are no more than undigested grass. While buffalo chips look similar to what we call cow pies, they are not the same. Dairy and beef cows also have multiple stomachs as does the buffalo, but buffalo fecal material is unique to that species.

Montana and Wyoming boys and girls in the forties and fifties ate a lot of buffalo in their school lunch programs coming from Yellowstone Park. Park rangers were constantly culling the herds in the winter to keep the Park's range lands from being destroyed from over grazing. But they did this with little fan fare and public knowledge. This eventually became a political problem for the park service.

I've talked to old time rangers who did the culling. It was a very unpleasant job. Killing animals by the hundreds in the winter is no one's definition of sport hunting. But we school children did enjoy the meat, which many claim is the healthiest available - no herbicides, pesticides, hormones, etc.

In the 1983 winter, Montana had its first public buffalo hunting season to cull buffalo coming from the Park into Montana. Thousands of residents put in their names in the drawing for only 35 permits. I know because I lucked out and drew one. The Buffalo High magic was still working for me.

I shot a four year old bull in the presence of a game warden and a field biologist. The buffalo were not just standing there 50 feet away. We couldn't get closer than 200 yards. The 600 pounds of meat the bull yielded was shared with friends and relatives.

But I won't bore the reader with additional details about this tale because I have a bald and golden eagle story to share.

John

 

[Maljunulo]

But I won't bore the reader with additional details about this tale because I have a bald and golden eagle story to share.

John

Did the eagles taste as good as the buffalo?

 

[CliveP]

I'd really really love a big juicy Buffalo steak right now rather than this arrow:eat:

I hunted a tined chicken pie from the larder today (definitely wish I could have shot it). I think it was actually an artificial chicken flavouring gravy pie as it didn't seem to have any chicken and not really any taste. I remember they used to put chicken into them but they had to cut costs. Soon you'll open the tin and be lucky if there is some water in it. That's progress I guess.

I imagine an actual piece of meat like Buffalo would be delicious.

Oh and I bought another monocular so my collection is growing rapidly although I should have bought some meat:eat:.

An Optima 6x16 (10deg fov Yeehaww) to join the Viking.

Maybe the 10x25 Hawke will even eventually turn up. I'd almost completely forgotten about that. Probably lack of meat affecting my long term postage memory :-C

 

[Binastro]

Hi Clive,
You should add the Celestron 6x30 monocular. Outland X?
It is quite good for the money and wide field.
£27 maybe.
Maybe an eye patch also?

 

[Stephen Prower]

Viewing through monocular with both eyes open

John

Rath - In response to your question, most monoculars cannot compete with the current alpha binoculars, unless several variables are included: weight, size, intended purpose, etc.

1. I don't think that 'competition' is the right word to describe the relation between monoculars and binoculars. For the purposes that most people use binoculars, the binocular is by far the superior tool. You just need to compare the view through one barrel of a binocular with the view through both barrels.

But as to 'variables' specific to the monocular, you could add the variable, for people who retain the sight of both eyes, of enabling the technique of viewing a scene with both eyes open.

2. Discussion of the topic is rare on the Bird Forum. The best technical article that I have found on the topic comes from the world of law enforcement:

--------
http://www.forcenecessary.com/force-necessary-combatives/articles/monocularandbinocularshooting/

'Article – Monocular and Binocular Shooting

The Shooting Eye Matrix

by W. Hock Hochheim'
--------

3. Thus with a little practice one can view, using a monocular, with both eyes open. You can view separate images at the same time in the open, and the monocular, eye. Indeed as an exercise you can overlay the magnified image in the monocular eye on top of the unmagnified image in the open eye.

I don't use a monocular often. And I have used the technique mostly only for viewing little birds at some 10-20 yards range from my house. So I don't develop, save to say that the technique is useful in some situations, and list a few brief observations.

a) I have tested to see if the peripheral reflex attraction to movement operates in the open eye. It will take more exhaustive testing to be certain, but my first impression is that it does.

b) The visual switch from detecting a bird in the scene that is viewed with the open eye to seeking to lay the monocular on the bird with the monocular eye takes a blink of the open eye.

I say 'seeking' to lay the monocular on the bird because one will often need to perform the intervening task of calibrating the two views. With a featureless scene, such as a hedge or a tree in leaf, this can prove difficult.

c) A limitation sometimes of the usefulness of the technique is the poor quality, as unenhanced by binocular vision, of the unmagnified image in the open eye.

d) It requires a high figure of light transmission by the monocular to reduce unwanted interference with the image in the monocular eye from the image in the open eye. Such interference can substantially reduce the good viewable area of the image in the monocular eye.

I use the Helios AMD+ 8x32 Super High Resolution monocular as recommended by mgsphilip on 3 January 2014 in Bird Forum.

The Helios seems outwardly similar to the 30mm or 32mm objective monoculars, ranging from 5x to 8x magnification, offered for sale by Opticron, Kite, and (now no longer listed) Monk.

The price of such monoculars clusters around the £80 to £120 mark.


Stephen

 

[John Dracon]

On the subject of bald and golden eagles, several days ago I left WSS to go to the nearest Home Depot store which is 75 miles away in Montana's state capitol, Helena. It was a most unusual trip. Most of Montana is under a thick blanket of snow. Yet the highways were summer time bare.

I have never seen so many eagles gathered as I did then. There are several reasons for this. Montana has lengthened it elk season to kill surplus cows. This rarely happens. Highway US 12 passes through hay lands and rich grazing grounds on its way to Helena. These are alfalfa fields preferred by elk above almost anything.

For years the elk have been steadily increasing on private lands. Their numbers in Meahger County exceed the range capacity to handle them. Herds of 700 to 1,000 elks will be out in the flats near the highway. Hunters will intercept them in the morning when they leave the hayfields, or sometimes the elk just stay put.

Anyway, hundreds are killed near the highway. When the hunters field dress the cows (the only ones they are allowed to shoot), they leave behind a bonanza of what are called gut piles. These, the eagles and other scavengers soon find a major source of food. The hunters rarely take the livers, hearts, and kidneys, and these plus fetuses (most cows are pregnant by mid October) and a third of the way through their gestation, so the eagles have much to gorge on.

It is common to see 3-4 eagles working the gut piles along with lesser scavengers such as ravens, crows, and magpies. Also, many deer are killed by vehicles on the highways in the winter, and the eagles also find them. One can drive by an eagle twenty feet off the highway and it will ignore the driver, unless he stops, and then the eagles become nervous and will fly off.

The road from Townsend to Helena has a long straight stretch. On one side are power poles sticking up with a cross arm supporting the wires. They look like elongated Christian crosses. Eagles and hawks will perch on the top pole, and with snow on the ground, they are easy to spot.

I counted over 20 eagles in fifteen miles of travel, plus the first snowy owl I've seen this winter. It was a most pleasant trip to make.

John

 

[CliveP]

Sounds mighty good John.

Ok maybe not the gut piles straight after my breakfast3

but the rest, very nice, except the snow which I don't really like or rather the cold, but better than flooding perhaps.

Apart from all that, a very nice image:t:

I was watching David Attenborough with his BBC show about the Barrier reef and it was fascinating to see the old footage of him first visiting Lizard Island in I think 1957 (8 years before my birth) with his primitive gear and then fast forwarding to him now in his James Bond science fiction become reality mini submersible and I tried to imagine being him back in time I'm sure never imagining how his next trip there would be.

Simpler times back then on his original trip and I could imagine that back then it would have been even more magical without all the gear and teams of scientists etc.

 

[John Dracon]

Glad you enjoyed my comments. Every place on earth possesses its own uniqueness. I've had friends who have visited the Great Barrier Reef, and they describe its features using superlatives.

Montana just broke a million residents. So with this much land mass, there is plenty of space to roam around. The diversity of bird life, even in the winter here in Montana is significant. A local rancher put in 80 acres of barley hay this past summer. When he begins feeding it to his cows, the mallards come in by the thousands. Quite a spectacle.

Yesterday, over 50 Canadian honkers were resting in a hayfield, all in a straight line, with bodies half under the snow. They actually use the snow as a form of insulation. Very hardy birds. They used to fly south but now spend most of their time in the Smith River valley.

john