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Thrush ID please - Koblenz of Germany (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Pied Kingfisher
- Start date
Pied Kingfisher
Active member
Thanks, ChrisKten and scodger. Judging by your descriptions, shall I imagine that the bird will become wholly black when mature? And will its beak turn yellow then?
Agreed Yes and Yes.
Though I could have easily said Juv female myself, but that is what learning is all about!
Makes bird watching interesting!
Regards
Kathy
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ChrisKten
It's true, I quite like Pigeons
TBH, Kathy, it could be a female, it's a lot harder to tell than people think. My first impression was male, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was actually a female.
Just to confuse matters further, download this pdf and compare the pictures and descriptions of juveniles. I've read and studied it a few times, and I'm still confused.|=)|
Pied Kingfisher
Active member
Thanks again to all. The pdf is great but it makes me dizzy after scrolling through it 
Birdwatching has no depth ...
Birdwatching has no depth ...
Interesting, Chris
Now that has let me loose here in the birdwatching department - another dimension in my eyes! :-O
Well it just shows how confusing the whole matter is as I have often wondered what I am seeing in my back garden.
Is there a 'exact' way of ID-ing a sex of the Juv Blackbirds at all? Is it size, maybe? Colour of a certain feather? Body parts!
Not going by the 'hardcopies' but has someone has a clever way/technique of dividing ID-ing Juv male and female blackbirds at all?
Love to know here too as much as Pied Kingfisher!
Regards
Kathy
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ChrisKten
It's true, I quite like Pigeons
Well, Kathy, from what I've seen in my own garden, and from what I've read, there's no way to visually sex a juvenile until it's completed it's first moult.
The tail tends to be black on a juvenile male, and brown on a juvenile female. The problem is that there's a lot that are the other way round. I've posted pictures of birds that I was sure were males, but others were just as sure that they were females.
I think that without DNA testing we are all guessing, it's just a matter of accepting that we are guessing. That's why I was careful with my first post in this thread, "Looks like a moulting male Blackbird to me." (I missed the word "juvenile" out in error, but corrected with an edit).
Maybe others more knowledgeable will disagree with all of the above.
The tail tends to be black on a juvenile male, and brown on a juvenile female. The problem is that there's a lot that are the other way round. I've posted pictures of birds that I was sure were males, but others were just as sure that they were females.
I think that without DNA testing we are all guessing, it's just a matter of accepting that we are guessing. That's why I was careful with my first post in this thread, "Looks like a moulting male Blackbird to me." (I missed the word "juvenile" out in error, but corrected with an edit).
Maybe others more knowledgeable will disagree with all of the above.
Pied Kingfisher
Active member
Thanks for clarification, ChrisKten.
From now on, I am more confident pointing to a juvenile Blackbird and say "I am certain it is a male" ...... since nobody can be sure
From now on, I am more confident pointing to a juvenile Blackbird and say "I am certain it is a male" ...... since nobody can be sure
ChrisKten
It's true, I quite like Pigeons
Thanks for clarification, ChrisKten.
From now on, I am more confident pointing to a juvenile Blackbird and say "I am certain it is a male" ...... since nobody can be sure
LOL, good idea, though I suspect others have thought of it before you.|=)|
BTW, I'm no expert, someone could still post a definitive way of sexing juveniles.
timwootton
Well-known member
Interesting stuff, but it is a male, 1st winter. It's almost completed its body moult into 2nd cal/adult plumage (which are black feathers - if it was a female it would have moulted into brown feathers) and is yet to moult a few breast feathers and finally its head feathers.
ChrisKten
It's true, I quite like Pigeons
I agree (not that I actually know much), but just for fun, how about this one taken in my garden 19th July this year?
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timwootton
Well-known member
That's a male too -similar scenario.
ChrisKten
It's true, I quite like Pigeons
That's interesting, I'm pretty sure that was a female. It may have been the one that I posted for confirmation at the time (I'd need to check to be certain). IIRC there were conflicting opinions on gender, which was what led me to download the pdf I linked to.
As I said earlier, even after studying the pictures in the pdf, I was still not certain of the gender of this bird. Although I can see obvious signs (as you've pointed out) of a male in the original bird in this thread, I can't see those signs in this bird due to it's age. I see only brown in this bird, no black, allowing for the contrast of course.
So I sometimes feel fairly confident sexing a bird towards the end of post juvenile moult, but I'm still very uncertain at any earlier stage.
ChrisKten
It's true, I quite like Pigeons
I guess it might help to explain what I see in the two pictures:
The first image looks like a male towards the end of post juvenile moult. The whole beak appears to be turning yellow, there are clearly black feathers on the breast (ignoring the tail as it's not as well lit).
I see no yellow appearing on the beak of the bird that I posted, and I see no black feathers.
However, judging by the EXIF data, the first picture was taken 30th August, mine was 19th July. So they could (depends if the male was from an earlier brood) be at different stages of moult.
I suppose the problem is that I have no idea what my bird looked like on 30th August, or maybe it makes no difference.
Anyway, the above is why I'm still confused.|=)|
The first image looks like a male towards the end of post juvenile moult. The whole beak appears to be turning yellow, there are clearly black feathers on the breast (ignoring the tail as it's not as well lit).
I see no yellow appearing on the beak of the bird that I posted, and I see no black feathers.
However, judging by the EXIF data, the first picture was taken 30th August, mine was 19th July. So they could (depends if the male was from an earlier brood) be at different stages of moult.
I suppose the problem is that I have no idea what my bird looked like on 30th August, or maybe it makes no difference.
Anyway, the above is why I'm still confused.|=)|
ChrisKten
It's true, I quite like Pigeons
Maybe it's my eyes, Simon, (they aren't great in some light conditions), but I only see brown, whereas I see black in the bird that was the subject of this thread.
Here's another picture of the same bird taken within 30 seconds of the first that I posted, again I still see brown (albeit a darkish brown, but that might be the exposure).
I guess I'm trying to get people to explain why they are so confident of gender. If the pictures and text in the pdf are to be believed, and if what I've read elsewhere is true, there is a lot of overlap between genders of juveniles, such as tail colour. As I understand it, the only stage of post juvenile moult where you can sex a juvenile Blackbird is the last stage.
BTW, you are the third person to call me Ken, I'd love to know where the word "Ken" comes from, maybe my username is an optical illusion.|=)|
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