Turtle Dove, Kent (1 Viewer)

[tittletattler]

Hi all,

I've been sent these images this morning of a Turtle Dove photographed in Kent within the last day or two.

The centres in both moulted and unmoulted scapulars are rather broad and dark perhaps? But also note the white ventral region and pale tipped primary coverts.

I can probably produce better edits of these images tonight if need be.

For reference:

http://birdingfrontiers.com/2011/02/22/oriental-turtle-dove/

Cheers,

Andy.

 

[Tideliner]

There have been releases of captive turtle doves in recent years and it is possible that is where your bird has come from. " years ago there were at least three birds present in mid winter in Norfolk , released from Pensthorpe waterfowl park.

 

[tittletattler]

Struggling to ID this.

Size appears to rule out Orientalis? Is it also too small for Meena?

The dark centres to the wing coverts and scapulars seem to match Meena much better than turtur. The complete lack of bare skin around the eye seems to match Meena but I can find turtur images which also perhaps show this.

Look at European Turtle Dove images on Birdguides dated 19/09/14 and 04/07/14.

Also worth a look at the OTD at Stromness image on Birdguides dated 17/12/02

Several websites suggest that the pale grey edged median coverts rules out European.....

What happened with this bird in the end? Dartford bird's primaries match this bird. See images L3 & L5 (with comparison to Collared Dove (size))

http://birdingfrontiers.com/2011/03/25/controversial-rufous-turtle-dove/#comments

Primaries don't look good for Meena. Tertials seem to match Meena better:

http://orientalbirdimages.org/search.php?Bird_ID=710&Bird_Image_ID=92105&p=11

I'm going to try to get some images myself. If anyone feels that this is certainly a European Turtle Dove, then please speak up and save me the effort. :t:

http://orientalbirdimages.org/search.php?Bird_ID=710&Bird_Image_ID=64655&p=43

Cheers,

Andy.

 

[petemorris]

Looks like an odd one Andy. Suggestions of a hybrid perhaps?

 

[Bazzer66]

I was just about to contact you Pete but as I said to Andy, someone will comment soon, so cheers for that. I guess Alan hasn't got Birdforum contact in the Darien !

 

[tittletattler]

Looks like an odd one Andy. Suggestions of a hybrid perhaps?

Could be. I never like the hybrid option (unless there's good science behind it) but Turtle Doves are captive bred in Kent.

But again note that the pale grey edged median coverts (and grey edged outer greater coverts plus many lesser coverts) potentially rule out European Turtle Dove. But this bird does look small.

So this bird is probably a Meena OTD?

Cheers,

Andy.

 

[Andy1979]

Is it likely to be accessible Andy?

 

[tittletattler]

Is it likely to be accessible Andy?

I've not discussed that with the owners as yet but I will hopefully be looking for it (and seeding nearby areas) on Saturday.

PM me if interested.

 

[James Hunter]

a shot from today

Regards

James

 

[Bismarck Honeyeater]

a shot from today

Regards

James

I see this bird is now being pagered as Turtle Dove; thats a mighty grey rump/back though....

 

[Andy1979]

This bird seems to have drawn a significant lack of comment on this forum. The worst you can do is get it wrong, so why not chip in with an opinion...?

With a (slight) bias, I'll go for Meena.

 

[Phil Andrews]

Any features showing in the flesh that aren't represented in the posted photos?

 

[Bazzer66]

I don't know how small meena can be but this bird is distinctly smaller than Collared Doves. To my eye the breast colouring is also more turtle dove like, Andy has some photos which may add more. The bare skin surrounding the eye is also virtually non existent

 

[tittletattler]

I don't know how small meena can be but this bird is distinctly smaller than Collared Doves. To my eye the breast colouring is also more turtle dove like, Andy has some photos which may add more. The bare skin surrounding the eye is also virtually non existent

Hi all,

As stated, clearly this bird isn't Orientalis on size alone. This bird is tiny and therefore almost certainly not Meena either. This bird is a European Turtle Dove.

However, I've found that many of the features quoted for Meena don't always seem to stand up to scrutiny. I don't have any flight shots yet so I can't check the outer web of the outer most tail feather. Primary spacing seems to vary between individuals and species.

Some birds originally reported as 'Meena' can be seen to be 'Turtur'. But I might have another look at the Collieston bird (Aberdeen) when time allows. I can see why that bird caused problems!

What would you call this as if it was on Shetland?

http://orientalbirdimages.org/search.php?Bird_ID=710&Bird_Image_ID=64655&p=43

Fingers crossed for a vagrant species of bird in Kent that is brightly coloured, not an escape, easy to ID and easily accessible........

Cheers,

Andy.