Typical Chickadee Nest and Habitat (1 Viewer)

[KnockerNorton]

You are still attempting to bring into the discussion something (causes of mortality) that I said nothing about, and you are trying to justify the attempt by saying that because there are different causes, the statistics has to be divided up according to the different causes to prevent the statistics from being misleading. I disagree. 'Combined' statistics can very well be very meaningful. True, a car insurance company would need a separate statistic on fatal traffic accidents, and a medical insurance company would need a separate statistic on fatal medical conditions, but the government housing department would need a 'combined' statistic for all fatalities, i.e. not differentiating between the different causes of fatalities. It really depends on the purpose whether or not a certain statistic makes sense for a certain purpose. The purpose of my initial post was to show the high mortality, not causes of mortality, etc (frankly, I'm getting tired of reiterating this).

For this purpose of showing high mortality, my 'combined' statistic from egg to third winter is very well meaningful. The reasoning behind the 'combined' statistic is also shown in my initial post.

On the magnitude of the numbers, there are indeed no reliable numbers for the chickadee. We are obviously reading the numbers differently, and it is already surprising that our readings of those unreliable numbers differ by only a percentage, not a factor. There is not much to go on to sort out such small differences with more precision.

Oh you do make me chortle! Have you read Susan Smith's book, The Black-Capped Chickadee: Behavioral Ecology and Natural History?

Guzano - chickadees roost singly, in shallow cavities or thick vegetation. No one is quite sure what determines the location of their roost, or how often they switch sites.

 

[do re meep meep]

Well, that reply to me is without substance, merely posted to post a reply. And cleverly combined with a substantive reply to another …

 

[kbro34]

back to your original question,
although the habitat in the pics do look nice for a chickadee i`m sure that they are becoming all to rare. so i think some bird without any natural cavaties would be more than happy to use your man-made one.i`m outting up a couple more chickadee houses this month and an owl house as well.
good luck, nesting season is only 6 months away.

 

[do re meep meep]

I did have a successful chickadee nest in the past breeding season o I also saw a chickadee in the box yesterday, i.e. in December! The snow is one foot deep on the ground, the sliding screen on my patio door in the back is frozen stuck! The bird doesn't roost in the box, but I sure hope it remembers the box come April or May.

 

[tburke]

I've had many chickadee nestings through the years although I've never targeted them specifically.
They're prolific little buggers with as many as eleven eggs in one nestbox.
When I initially began efforts to restore bluebirds in my area years ago I placed nestboxes in many types of habitat that I've since learned were not ideal for bluebirds.
It was during that phase that I hosted several chickadee nests each year.
It seems to me that these small cavity nesters are pretty niche specific and targeting for example chickadees or tufted titmice over house wrens involves some subtleties that you pick up on after maintaining nestboxes through the years.
House wrens are creatures of brushy habitat and build their nests of twigs.If you have a lot of shrubbery habitat in your yard house wrens could be a problem.
Chickadees use a lot of moss in their nest (As do tufted titmice but the titmice nest contains an egg cup lined with bark).Providing large clumps of moss might key chickadee nest building for you.I ve never seen a chickadee nest that wasn't largely moss.
Key to any nest site for native cavity nesters is minimizing competition from house sparrows.
I believe that use of a 1 1/4" opening will preclude most sparrows.
I believe tilting your nestboxes forward will assist in minimizing sparrows also.
Another point to keep in mind (if you have a feeding station in your yard)is that the commotion around a feeding station would probably discourage nesting.I'd limit feeding to small quantities of sunflower seeds and suet in the area immediately around potential nest site.
Finally, squirrels will raid nest boxes or attempt to enlarge openings to occupy the cavity
so placement with the aim of precluding squirrels is also helpful.
Good Luck

 

[do re meep meep]

I believe tilting your nestboxes forward will assist in minimizing sparrows also.

The socalled Peterson box for bluebirds has a forwardly slanted frontwall by design, see http://www.shawcreekbirdsupply.com/plans_peterson_bluebird.htm This helps keeping rain water out, and may help fledglings getting out of the box. Are there any other people claiming that the slant helps to discourage sparrows?

 

[tburke]

The socalled Peterson box for bluebirds has a forwardly slanted frontwall by design, see http://www.shawcreekbirdsupply.com/plans_peterson_bluebird.htm This helps keeping rain water out, and may help fledglings getting out of the box. Are there any other people claiming that the slant helps to discourage sparrows?

Main reason I suggested the forward slope on chickadee nest box is based on natural cavities I've seen used by chickadees.
I believe they are better adapted to clinging to surfaces than house sparrows.
I'd forgotten about the Peterson box, although I've experimented with them in the past.
I would reduce the opening in the plans from that link although I can't say exactly what size I would choose because I haven't experimented with slotted openings that much.
I was thinking of this post a couple of days ago when the sun was shining here in Buffalo, New York and pairs of chickadees were poking around some of the nestboxes I have in a woodland setting near my house.
I wonder if anyone out there has figured conclusively what the minimum opening requirement would be for chickadees.

 

[brettski]

I wonder if anyone out there has figured conclusively what the minimum opening requirement would be for chickadees.

We constructed and installed 8 nesting boxes (addendum info to my previous post) based on these NRCS plans: http://www.ia.nrcs.usda.gov/features/HelpAHabitat/housewren.html
(see 1.125" hole size in footnotes at bottom of plan)

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[brettski]

The socalled Peterson box for bluebirds has a forwardly slanted frontwall by design, see http://www.shawcreekbirdsupply.com/plans_peterson_bluebird.htm This helps keeping rain water out, and may help fledglings getting out of the box. Are there any other people claiming that the slant helps to discourage sparrows?

....not to be a thread hog, but....
Ironically, about the same time that we constructed/installed the Dee/Wren nesting boxes, we did the same with Peterson design BB houses. We closely followed installation guidelines regarding location within the landscape surroundings. Within 2 hours, we had numerous tree swallows checking one of them out. We did not monitor them thru this past (first) year of their installation, but did note that 2 of them had BB's and the others were occupied by the Swallows. We do have HOSP in the area, but noted no competition.

 

[brettski]

Perhaps I have earned the "shame on you" admonishment, but we finally got to cleaning out the Peterson type Bluebird boxes and the Chickadee nest boxes on Feb 9. Perhaps a little late in the midwestern US season, but I don't believe I have waited too long to ruin and diminish new nesting potential. Anyway, specifically focused on the Chickadee boxes (since that is the root of this thread), we installed 8 of them last spring. We have not inspected them since...until this past clean-out. They are all located within a heavily wooded area, within a couple hundred feet of a pond. 2 of them were empty, but for a half dozen twigs. 5 of them had a well constructed mass of twigs, about the size of small pretzel sticks, all neatly woven about 3" - 4" in height and the top was saucer shaped. I presume this to be a Wren nest. One of them had a nest, more constructed of softer grasses and a few feathers. It was also about 3" - 4" in height, but the top was more a well defined cup, about 2-1/2" wide and 1-1/2" deep. I am guessing this might be a Chickadee nest...?

 

[do re meep meep]

First chickadee song of the year

I came home from buying groceries this afternoon, and when I was in the driveway, I heard for the first time this year the territorial song of a male chickadee o

The amazing thing is that 2 days ago there was 28 cm (about 11 inches) of snow! And this weekend through to Monday there is 30 cm to 50 cm of snow forecasted.

Last year, I saw the moss base of the chickadee nest in my box in mid April. Now I am really, really, really hoping for another successful nest o

 

[tburke]

Perhaps I have earned the "shame on you" admonishment, but we finally got to cleaning out the Peterson type Bluebird boxes and the Chickadee nest boxes on Feb 9. Perhaps a little late in the midwestern US season, but I don't believe I have waited too long to ruin and diminish new nesting potential. Anyway, specifically focused on the Chickadee boxes (since that is the root of this thread), we installed 8 of them last spring. We have not inspected them since...until this past clean-out. They are all located within a heavily wooded area, within a couple hundred feet of a pond. 2 of them were empty, but for a half dozen twigs. 5 of them had a well constructed mass of twigs, about the size of small pretzel sticks, all neatly woven about 3" - 4" in height and the top was saucer shaped. I presume this to be a Wren nest. One of them had a nest, more constructed of softer grasses and a few feathers. It was also about 3" - 4" in height, but the top was more a well defined cup, about 2-1/2" wide and 1-1/2" deep. I am guessing this might be a Chickadee nest...?

I've hosted a couple of dozen chickadee nests through the years and they were always constucted largely of moss with some bark.
Same for tufted titmouse nest but with more bark in the top layer.
Seems to me that nest cups were made of hair.

 

[brettski]

Thanks for the feedback tburke. I am certain the other nests were wrens as I have seen and cleaned out a few wren nests plus we noted wrens about some of the boxes over the spring and summer. It was this one with the cup that was so different. When I said softer grasses, it was more like very thin, fine, hairlike grasses. Also, I didn't say that we found one tiny cracked-open egg at the bottom of the cup. We looked at some on-line photos of C-Dee eggs and it was a darn close match. Would the shape and dimensions of the cup that I described match what a C-Dee would normally construct?

 

[KnockerNorton]

Cickadee nests are made of a moss base, and the nest cup is lined with hair, woven into a felt-like pad. Occasional feathers are very very occasionally used.

A nest made of anything else - grass etc - is not a chickadee.

 

[do re meep meep]

On nest dimensions, I'd say that a nestcup of 2.5" diameter and 1.5" deep would be typical of a chickadee nest, but 3"-4" height would be atypically high, more typical would be 2"-3" high. Did you perhaps use a deep box? Also some individual birds like to build higher.

On nest materials, I'd say that chickadees prefer to build a moss base which resiliently retains the shape of the nestcup if trampled upon thousands of times throughout the nesting period. The nestcup is preferrably lined with hair of furbearing animals such as rabbits. This is predicated on availability of moss and hair closeby. A chickadee nest close to a barn was lined with horsehair. If the preferred materials are not available, then other available materials will be used such as thin strips of bark for the base and plant down for the lining. I have not heard of hairlike grasses being used, but would not rule it out. Rather than not building a nest, a chickadee would still build a nest with available though less preferred materials, IMHO.

I would think that the chickadee egg in the nestcup is probably probative considering what you have said. You have not by any chance taken any pictures that you can post?

On providing preferred nesting materials for chickadees, moss and hair. Can you grow moss close to the chickadee boxes or move the chickadee boxes to moss grown areas? Google companies that grow and sell moss (for Japanese gardens, etc). You can get dog and cat hair free of charge from a pet groomer and hang them in a suet cage near the nestbox. A nesting chickadee pair does not use much hair at all, but other nesting birds may use them also.

 

[tburke]

On nest dimensions, I'd say that a nestcup of 2.5" diameter and 1.5" deep would be typical of a chickadee nest, but 3"-4" height would be atypically high, more typical would be 2"-3" high. Did you perhaps use a deep box? Also some individual birds like to build higher.

On nest materials, I'd say that chickadees prefer to build a moss base which resiliently retains the shape of the nestcup if trampled upon thousands of times throughout the nesting period. The nestcup is preferrably lined with hair of furbearing animals such as rabbits. This is predicated on availability of moss and hair closeby. A chickadee nest close to a barn was lined with horsehair. If the preferred materials are not available, then other available materials will be used such as thin strips of bark for the base and plant down for the lining. I have not heard of hairlike grasses being used, but would not rule it out. Rather than not building a nest, a chickadee would still build a nest with available though less preferred materials, IMHO.

I would think that the chickadee egg in the nestcup is probably probative considering what you have said. You have not by any chance taken any pictures that you can post?

On providing preferred nesting materials for chickadees, moss and hair. Can you grow moss close to the chickadee boxes or move the chickadee boxes to moss grown areas? Google companies that grow and sell moss (for Japanese gardens, etc). You can get dog and cat hair free of charge from a pet groomer and hang them in a suet cage near the nestbox. A nesting chickadee pair does not use much hair at all, but other nesting birds may use them also.

I like that idea of providiing a quantity of moss somewhere near the nestbox.
You could easily transfer a nice thick clump of moss from elsewhere with a garden spade.I believe the moss would remain healthy until hot dry weather arrives.
As stated above simply brushing a cat or a dog would provide all the necessary hair for the nest cup.
This post has gotten me interested in targeting chickadees and I'm going to try the 1 1/8" opening.
I live on the Niagara River on the Canadian border and despite the two foot snowfall last weekend our chickadees are filling the air with mating calls.

 

[brettski]

I am remiss for not taking more care and pics of the contents of the nesting boxes as we cleaned them. As is usual when we visit our project, we are there to work. We have not yet reached that point where we can actually sit back and enjoy it. I hope this year will be different.
The entire property is damp and moss would be readily available. The pond and the thick timber surrounding it hold the humidity. Mushrooms grow fairly readily...including Morels. It is entirely possible that the nest mass I removed from that one nesting box contained moss, but I didn't take the time to examine it nor document it. I will use this as a lesson.

 

[KnockerNorton]

regarding putting out cat/dog hair, you have to be careful that the hair isn't coated with insecticide or detergents from bathing or use of eg Frontline insecticides. hair from a pet groomer would have a high risk of this 9as they'll probably bathe the pet before brushing it, so it will be full of detergebnt, which will strip the waterproofing off the birds).

Chickadees will vary the depth of the moss base to suit the cavity and also the availability of moss. There are records of chickadee nests with moss bases something like 18" deep.

 

[do re meep meep]

There is no risk of any harmful chemicals from dog or cat hair from the pet groomer. The pet groomer first cuts the hair off, and not just brush it, then bathe the pet. Cutting dry and fluffy hair is far easier than cutting wet hair that lies flat on the body of the pet.

It is this cut-off hair that you want for the birds.

Your neighbourhood pet groomer may already be in the know, it is not an uncommon request from birders. I got two plastic grocery bags full of dog hair, one from each of the two pet groomers that I went to. If you smell the hair in the bag, you smell the dog, BTW, you don't smell any chemicals, not even shampoo.

If the pet has worn an anti-flea collar that's even better, no parasites for the baby birds! Although the minimal dosage that remains on the hair may not be as effective as the dosage on the collar. I have not done it, but come to think of it, it is perhaps a good idea to quickly spray the hair with an insecticide before offering it to the birds.

As I said, there is a correlation between the height of the nest and the depth of the box. Usual recommendations for chickadee boxes ranges from 6" to 8" deep, measured from the floor to the bottom of the entrance hole. Nest heights typically ranges from 2" to 3" depending on the depth of the box. That's why I asked for the depth of the box, but there is no chickadee box that is 18" deep. I am not talking about extremes in nature either, I am talking about typical chickadee boxes.

 

[libirder]

Would a chicadee ever nest in a hang house designed for wrens? And if not can anyone link me a house that chicadees most prefer and how I should mount them. thanks.