Various Raptors - South Essex UK - 12th May (1 Viewer)

[TheBlackGrouse]

which one? I see WTE fairly often in Northern Germany and can´t see either of the birds as that species ???

The lower one has a white tail. White-tailed Eagles are easy to see in my favorite birding places so I'm familiar with them. Don't know any other raptor with this (wing) shape and a white tail. Or is it a photo artefact? The second one has very long wings (pushed forward) and a long tail with sharp corners. The head looks small because of the angle, it can have six primaries (moult?). But it's an impression, not a claim because two eagles in one photo seems unlikely to me in South Essex UK. And I wanted to stimulate discussion on these photos, I almost hijacked the thread by accident

 

[Joern Lehmhus]

The lower one has a white tail. White-tailed Eagles are easy to see in my favorite birding places so I'm familiar with them. Don't know any other raptor with this (wing) shape and a white tail. Or is it a photo artefact? The second one has very long wings (pushed forward) and a long tail with sharp corners. The head looks small because of the angle, it can have six primaries (moult?). But it's an impression, not a claim because two eagles in one photo seems unlikely to me in South Essex UK. And I wanted to stimulate discussion on these photos, I almost hijacked the thread by accident

Well, from that single photo I think you can´t say that either of the birds looks like WTE. As you also proposed, I think the white is an artefact due to sun , like the reflection on the wing of this crow, which surely isn´t pale grey :

https://t4.ftcdn.net/jpg/03/20/34/41/360_F_320344143_shKq8jo8N2FfI4MZs75cKjZKsaJd8cJr.jpg

Even dismissing primary number, The other birds wing shape, even considering the bent wing position, does not look like the broad hand and arm of White tailed eagle ....and tail shape of that one is also wrong for WTE, which has a somewhat wedged tail shape:

https://peregrinefund.org/sites/default/files/styles/raptor_banner_600x430/public/2021-12/WTEAdFly1.JPG?itok=3vK28TtZ

https://images.hive.blog/p/4bEjbgCbFMvAGbwxD9CJfJUznpDy21P1gb5kciUwoKrnYbGbNVgJCYqePpa9dn5zdcNkAMiAJAXU145LvUB8u3rhKmd1ccUbG2bbcq4kRXXmoWLL5r9CyYUicr2ro9zuG48MNhfCh3ERJwYt5A4no7MUo2WL3kPBgyXGj5o78iiQSWdRpJ?format=match&mode=fit

 

[TheBlackGrouse]

Well, from that single photo I think you can´t say that either of the birds looks like WTE. As you also proposed, I think the white is an artefact due to sun , like the reflection on the wing of this crow, which surely isn´t pale grey :

https://t4.ftcdn.net/jpg/03/20/34/41/360_F_320344143_shKq8jo8N2FfI4MZs75cKjZKsaJd8cJr.jpg

Even dismissing primary number, The other birds wing shape, even considering the bent wing position, does not look like the broad hand and arm of White tailed eagle ....and tail shape of that one is also wrong for WTE, which has a somewhat wedged tail shape:

https://peregrinefund.org/sites/default/files/styles/raptor_banner_600x430/public/2021-12/WTEAdFly1.JPG?itok=3vK28TtZ

https://images.hive.blog/p/4bEjbgCbFMvAGbwxD9CJfJUznpDy21P1gb5kciUwoKrnYbGbNVgJCYqePpa9dn5zdcNkAMiAJAXU145LvUB8u3rhKmd1ccUbG2bbcq4kRXXmoWLL5r9CyYUicr2ro9zuG48MNhfCh3ERJwYt5A4no7MUo2WL3kPBgyXGj5o78iiQSWdRpJ?format=match&mode=fit

Agree, could be an artefact on the first one. For me it's not enough to claim a White-tailed Eagle but the image gives that impression. I didn't say that the second one was a White-tailed too. The tail does not fit, wrong shape and too long.

Two eagle species in that region in one photo seems very unlikely to me. Still, the second one has an extremely long hand and look at the tail. If these proportions are correct it must be something special. That's why I'm constantly thinking about some sort of distortion.

 

[AStevenson1]

First is female type marsh harrier, 2-4 are male hen harrier. Upper bird of last two may be unidentifiable but I can't see why it isn't a silhouetted osprey would explain the apparent long wings (or a slightly distorted common buzzard), lower bird to me is a another female/immature marsh harrier due to plain chocolatey brown general upperpart tone, tail colour maybe an artefact.

 

[Farnboro John]

All the birds are harriers, 1 is Marsh, 2-4 are male Hen and the crops from the last one are both Marsh again. One has the sun on its tilted tail. There is nothing that looks remotely like an eagle (especially not White-tailed with its huge-chord many-fingered wings and wedge-shaped tail) and the wings are not even broad enough compared to their length for a buzzard sp - plus the hand is too long for that. Even if silhouetted an Osprey would have its white head and neck in the sun and show that as contrast to the dark underwings and tail.

Plus, it's South Essex. Perhaps the OP would confirm the habitat but I'm guessing flat open country.

John

 

[pianoman]

To DJW the OP: Despite the difficulty in estimating size, In the field I really think you would have jumped out at you if any of the birds were WT Eagles.

Don't shoot me but I am kind of getting the look of a Black Kite from pic 5. I tail is quite spread out and I can almost fancy I see a slight notch. I would have thought that any harrier would have a much more rounded end to the tail.

 

[TheBlackGrouse]

For me it's all about the process of identifying. When many believe it's an artefact that doesn't make it the truth, it's still an assumption. Don't you think it's strange that the only artefact in that photo covers that whole tail? We cannot ID while ignoring a white tail (with no terminal band) completely. That said, I don't believe it's a White-tailed.

Looks like the higher one is missing a primary, and then there are six. But that's my assumption

 

[djw0208]

Hi all, yes the area was flat open marsh scrubland around Fobbing near the Thames.
Size wise, I would agree that they are unlikely to be eagles, I didn't get that impression. It was mainly the shape of the dark bird in question that deemed different from the usual area raptors.
Thanks for everyone's help by the way, I'm really enjoying the discussion.
I guess I need to get a camera with better zoom ;-)

 

[TheBlackGrouse]

To DJW the OP: Despite the difficulty in estimating size, In the field I really think you would have jumped out at you if any of the birds were WT Eagles.

Don't shoot me but I am kind of getting the look of a Black Kite from pic 5. I tail is quite spread out and I can almost fancy I see a slight notch. I would have thought that any harrier would have a much more rounded end to the tail.

Black Kite, I can work with that! Then we need the six primaries

Here is one I saw a few weeks ago in the Netherlands. The distance was at least 1 km and it was heavily clouded, but I was able to take some pictures. When closed the tail had a small fork, when spread you got this.

 

[pianoman]

Black Kite, I can work with that! Then we need the six primaries

Here is one I saw a few weeks ago in the Netherlands. The distance was at least 1 km and it was heavily clouded, but I was able to take some pictures. When closed the tail had a small fork, when spread you got this.

Thanks Grouse, with my screen resolution and my eye resolution I don't think I'd be able to count the primaries on the OP so I've only general impressions to go on...