What's in a Name? (1 Viewer)

[Charles Harper]

Awful quiet on the 'forum tonight. A chance to express my appreciation: you fine fellows recommended 'The Birds of Europe' (Svensson, ,et.al.), and I am gratified to find in it that there has at last been a nod to the rest of the English-speaking world, that full English names have been given (in brackets at least).

I can now see that they are really (European) Robin, (Eurasian) Jay, (Bohemian) Waxwing, (Common) Teal, and (Great) Cormorant. Wren, Knot and Dipper always sounded so pompous, as if God had created British birds first. Before, I had always thought you were speaking generically of cranes, pheasants and kingfishers when you were actually referring specifically to (Common) Crane, (Common) Pheasant and (Common) Kingfisher.

It is so much clearer now, thank you.

 

[Andrew]

I must point out that the Teal is usually referred to as Eurasian Teal even by the BOU. My Collins says Common too but the consensus is for Eurasian. I hope some others will expand on this name.

 

[Darrell Clegg]

Charles

God DID create a British list first - after all, he is English


Darrell

 

[Michael Frankis]

Rather more to the point - English names were invented by English people, not Americans (who didn't exist then, or rather spoke Cherokee etc)!! When we called something a Kingfisher, we didn't know there were other kingfishers in the world (didn't even know there was a rest of the world!!). Trouble is, a lot of the proposed qualifiers were not chosen very carefully, and that resulted in a backlash against making any changes at all.

Hi Darrell,
Remonds me of the story of the American, on being told that his son was learning French at school, demanded "why does he have to learn that? - English was good enough for Jesus, its good enough for my son". Wonder if he is busy learning Aramaic yet

Michael

 

[dennis]

Michael. American jokes, aye? I've just emailed your attempt at humor to several U.S. Marines. They also thanked me for the aerial view of your home.
LOL!

dennis

 

[Darrell Clegg]

See what you've done Michael - you've upset the US marines and they're coming to get you. You should be quite safe at home, but God help the rest of us


Darrell

 

[Candice]

Charles, the Common Pheasant is known as the Ring-necked Pheasant in the USA. It is the state bird of South Dakota if my memory serves me right.

 

[Darrell Clegg]

To get serious for a second, this name thing has been a problem for a while, and I fully understand what Charles means by the lack of a specific identifier in front of a birds name ie (river) Kingfisher.
British Birds magazine addressed this about twelve years ago and produced a list of new bird names. There was an outcry over some (no-one uses Pallass' Gull!) but others were readily accepted - at least for use in written form
We are geting there, but it takes time for new bird names to filter through - it does happen, we now call the Hedge Sparrow a Dunnock.

There is a difference in spoken Bird names and written names. We still call Grey Heron just "Heron" because we only have one species over here, but when we write it down it is Grey Heron -

When birding abroad our habits change again. If we go to a place where there are several kinds of Wheatear for instance, everything we just call "Wheatear" at home suddenly becomes "Northern Wheatear" to differentiate it.

In short - give us time and we'll get there

Darrell

 

[Charles Harper]

Aw, I get confused anyway. After 13 years here, I still call the Grey Herons 'Great Blue Herons' and the Buff-bellied Pipits 'Water Pipits'... and what used to be Water Pipits are now 'American Pipits', so I'm now calling them what I've never even seen... Come to think of it, maybe it would be better if I just called them all Herons and Pipits!

 

[Michael Frankis]

... and what used to be Water Pipits are now 'American Pipits'

Hi Charles,

Only in America!! - the 'original' Water Pipit in the mountains of central Europe and west Asia is still Water Pipit (Anthus spinoletta

Michael

 

[Charles Harper]

Hi Michael,

I know that, that's the one I've never seen. I saw a Tree Pipit, though, rare vagrant on Hegurajima Island. Thought it was Godlewski's Pipit, still do, but the experts said it was a
Tree Pipit-- published and all-- so I ticked it as Tree. What do you think of that? Will I go to Hell?

PS: Please close your brackets, Michael, you might lose a trinomial.

 

[Michael Frankis]

Hi Charles,

Tree Pipit is the same size as Olive-backed Pipit (a.k.a. Indian Tree) or Red-throated, while Godlewski's (a.k.a. Blyth's) is larger, nearly as big as Richard's.

Tree also has bolder streaking on the breast (only very fine in Blyth's), and a different call note, a buzzy 'tzzzp' while Blyth's call is similar to Richard's.

Michael

PS I did close the bracket, but it got swallowed by that winking face!

 

[Chuck A Wulla]

I just wanted to point out that until fairly recently I would never have thought to refer to an American Robin. It was always just a robin or perhaps a red breasted robin. It was only after my introduction to international birding forums that I realized that there even were other robins. Presently I'm confused as to why the same grebes have different common names.

 

[Michael Frankis]

Hi Chuck,

Eared Grebe = Black-necked Grebe
Horned Grebe = Slavonian Grebe

There's plenty more cases of the same birds having different names across the Pond, many a lot worse than the grebes . . .

US name = UK name
Common Loon = Great Northern Diver
Arctic Loon = Black-throated Diver
Parasitic Jaeger = Arctic Skua
Common Murre = Common Guillemot
Thick-billed Murre = Brünnich's Guillemot
Bank Swallow = Sand Martin

Me, I think some cases, the UK name is better (e.g. Skua vs. Jaeger; Diver vs. Loon), others, I think the US name is better (e.g. Murre vs. Guillemot; Bank Swallow vs. Sand Martin)

Michael

 

[Darrell Clegg]

I know some people hate it, but I prefer the name Mew Gull to Common Gull, especially as it's not the commonest gull in Britain.

Other different names include:

Horned Lark = Shore Lark
Lapland Longspur = Lapland Bunting
Hawks (buteos) = Buzzards
Boreal Owl = Tengmalm's Owl
White-winged Crossbill = Two-barred Crossbill

Darrell

 

[Charles Harper]

Now that is interesting, Michael-- why do you prefer certain names? Like you, I have druthers, and neither are they tied to nationality. I like 'jaeger' and 'guillemot'-- much more interesting phonemically than 'skua' and 'murre', with those boring medial open vowels, to say nothing of the exotic spelling (now, don't go all Anglo-Saxon on me!). 'Diver' and 'loon' is a real toss-up for me, though to a Canadian, 'loon' has an added attractiveness as a fond epithet for their dollar coin. 'Sand Martin' avoids the confusion (for me) with 'Barn Swallow'. And 'Goosander' has always been a favorite-- much for suggestive than Common Merg.

 

[Michael Frankis]

Hi Darrell,
Given that Larus canus (Common Gull) and L. (c.) brachyrhynchus (Mew Gull) are likely to be split soon, you'll have to live with Common Gull, which is of course correctly named - it may not be the commonest breeding gull (which is Kittiwake!), but it is the commonest and most conspicuous gull in winter.

Hi Charles,
I don't like 'jaeger' because it is impossible to know how to pronounce it, and also because genetically there's no evidence for splitting the skuas into two genera.
'Murre' I like because it is actually the old native English name, whereas 'Guillemot' is a French imposition (and being half-Danish myself, I also like the old Viking name Tystie for Black Guillemot).
Bank Swallow, again because that's what it is in Danish as well.

Michael

 

[HH75]

Hi all,
Darrell:"God DID create a British list first - after all, he is English"
Killian is Irish!;-)
Michael:"it is the commonest and most conspicuous gull in winter."
Nah,has to be Black-headed!Common is probably the next most widespread and abundant here in winter.
As regards "new" names,I don't like Pallas' Gull,jaegers,Lapland Longspur(even though it is more correct than Lapland Bunting!).
Harry H

 

[Michael Frankis]

Hi Harry,

Maybe Black-headeds are commoner where you are, but here, Commons out-number Black-headeds by 4:1 in winter with roost counts of 40,000 or more. Commons are also more commensal with man - they're the gull that you get on football pitches, rooftops, etc, etc, whereas Black-headeds only winter commonly near water

Must admit, I do like 'Pallas's Gull' - we all like Pallas's Warbler, and the man did discover it, after all! - whereas 'Great Black-headed' is both cumbersome and easy to misinterpret. As for Lap Bunting - 'Longspur' isn't more correct, unless you also have 'Snow Longspur' for Snow Bunting (Plectrophenax is more closely related to Calcarius, than it is to Emberiza)

Michael

 

[Darrell Clegg]

Harry - The Irish are only Englishmen who can swim!!!!

Michael, Common Gull is outnumbered down here by Black-headed, Herring and probably Great-black Backed as well.

Darrell