Which one to choose for my first spotting scope? (2 Viewers)

[Koplari]

Hi,

new user here, also I've have started investing hours on bird watching since last year. It seems like that every new hobby you start, you can go on low budget or start from the top. I thought of just skimming the top budget and choosing between these 3 scopes.

Kowa 883
Kowa 88A
Kowa 99A

Any recommendations between those? I've read about the star test etc., but I just want to know real life performance. Would it make sense to invest on 99A (3200€), if I could have 883 with less money (2500€).

 

[Binastro]

Ilta, Koplari.

The Kowa 99A doesn't seem to have had many excellent samples yet.

So maybe one of the smaller ones.

Terveisin,
B.

 

[Bill Atwood]

Is the 883 still available? Between the 88s, I'd pick the 88A. It has 2 threaded sockets for plate mounting. These allow for a completely secure and non-twisting plate mount.

I tried 2 different 99As, their performance at 60x-70x was left wanting in comparison to Swaro ATX 95 and Meopta S2 82.

 

[wllmspd]

You’ll need a solid tripod and head and be prepared to carry it around. Sometimes you might not want to lug a big scope around and so a smaller scope would be better. I have a friend who rates the 88mm Kowa.

Peter

 

[Mono]

It all depends on what you want to do with your scope. If you are carrying it around with you a 60mm would be much better. What sort of birding do you do?

 

[Koplari]

Is the 883 still available? Between the 88s, I'd pick the 88A. It has 2 threaded sockets for plate mounting. These allow for a completely secure and non-twisting plate mount.

I tried 2 different 99As, their performance at 60x-70x was left wanting in comparison to Swaro ATX 95 and Meopta S2 82.

It is here in Finland, on several stores. Prices vary between 2490 - 2700€. Maybe that full zoom quality is important, as I'm new to bird watching and would like to see the details to learn species.

You’ll need a solid tripod and head and be prepared to carry it around. Sometimes you might not want to lug a big scope around and so a smaller scope would be better. I have a friend who rates the 88mm Kowa.

Peter

I ordered Sirui ST-124 + VA-5, would this combo be enough stable for the 88A? I got it cheap, due to damaged box, tripod and head are new. I know that some have used it successfully with the 883, also that it's not the most stable combo with spotting scope attached.

It all depends on what you want to do with your scope. If you are carrying it around with you a 60mm would be much better. What sort of birding do you do?

I would be carrying it around in backpack, mostly traveling by car, occasionally on bicycle. There are 3 bird towers near me, I visit those from time to time, also I would take the scope with me for longer holidays abroad. I'm just learning the species at the moment, 2 years into the hobby.

 

[bartd]

I have had a few Spotter's over the years and my go to full size Spotter is rthe Meopta S2 82 Angled with a 20-70 eyepiece. Amazingly bright and the edge to edge clarity is phenominal. Two of my friends who have borrowed mine are now S 2 owners. Truly tough to beat the quality Meopta brings tot he table. They make a nice,resonably priced tripod too. I use it for photography and my spotter.

 

[jring]

Hi,

first of all, welcome to birdforum!

Regarding the scope, my advice to you is to try them thoroughly in person, be they used or new and buy the example you tried - if it is good. Sample variation is unfortunately a thing with fast refractors like these - regardless of brand.

The minimum requirement would be the ability to offer a crisp image at maximum magnification - with an easy to find point of best focus rather than a wide area of least blurriness which is usually a sign for a not so great examle.
I would take a diy artificial star (led flashlight with a piece of aluminum foil with a tiny pinhole) and observe at 30m or so to do a quick star test - see the link below and don't be scared of the formulas... the images below are what is important.

Star testing telescope optical quality

The basics of star testing telescope: diameter of artificial star, distance induced spherical aberration.

www.telescope-optics.net

As for the ST 124 - it seems a bit low to me with 1,58m height with column extended and also 4 sections - which makes it less stable than three or even two sections due to more joints and smaller diameter of the innermost segment.
I didn't find a column down size (as is preferred for use with spotters for better stability), but I'd guess it's probably 1,25m or thereabouts. You can add 12-15 cm each for the head and scope to get the eyepiece height. While with angled scopes you don't have to get the eyepiece to your eye level like with straight scopes, I would prefer to have 1,65 or so - but I am 1,88m.

I didn't find a VA-8 - did you mean the VA-5? If yes, that would be an ok head for sth a bit smaller (with the option to use a longer arca-swiss plate to balance the scope, 3kg max load (take half of that for use with scopes) and 1kg of counterbalance), but the 883 with the wide angle zoom is more like 1,9 kg...
The default head for a full size scope on there is the Manfrotto 500AH...

Joachim

 

[Koplari]

I have had a few Spotter's over the years and my go to full size Spotter is rthe Meopta S2 82 Angled with a 20-70 eyepiece. Amazingly bright and the edge to edge clarity is phenominal. Two of my friends who have borrowed mine are now S 2 owners. Truly tough to beat the quality Meopta brings tot he table. They make a nice,resonably priced tripod too. I use it for photography and my spotter.

Hi! Haven't got a Meopta on my hands to test it, only Kowa's and few Swarovski. I'll definitely consider it if I happen to come by one and can test it out.

Hi,

first of all, welcome to birdforum!

Regarding the scope, my advice to you is to try them thoroughly in person, be they used or new and buy the example you tried - if it is good. Sample variation is unfortunately a thing with fast refractors like these - regardless of brand.

The minimum requirement would be the ability to offer a crisp image at maximum magnification - with an easy to find point of best focus rather than a wide area of least blurriness which is usually a sign for a not so great examle.
I would take a diy artificial star (led flashlight with a piece of aluminum foil with a tiny pinhole) and observe at 30m or so to do a quick star test - see the link below and don't be scared of the formulas... the images below are what is important.

Star testing telescope optical quality

The basics of star testing telescope: diameter of artificial star, distance induced spherical aberration.

www.telescope-optics.net

As for the ST 124 - it seems a bit low to me with 1,58m height with column extended and also 4 sections - which makes it less stable than three or even two sections due to more joints and smaller diameter of the innermost segment.
I didn't find a column down size (as is preferred for use with spotters for better stability), but I'd guess it's probably 1,25m or thereabouts. You can add 12-15 cm each for the head and scope to get the eyepiece height. While with angled scopes you don't have to get the eyepiece to your eye level like with straight scopes, I would prefer to have 1,65 or so - but I am 1,88m.

I didn't find a VA-8 - did you mean the VA-5? If yes, that would be an ok head for sth a bit smaller (with the option to use a longer arca-swiss plate to balance the scope, 3kg max load (take half of that for use with scopes) and 1kg of counterbalance), but the 883 with the wide angle zoom is more like 1,9 kg...
The default head for a full size scope on there is the Manfrotto 500AH...

Joachim

Hi!

I've been testing them out and I can't really tell large differences between them. I have Kowa TSN-821 on loan for this spring and it has corrosion/dirt inside the lens assembly. All other scopes are thousand times brighter than that 821.

I will make that star test once I have my scope.

As far as I understand, that ST-124 is 1580 mm tall, VA-5 (not VA-8) is 83 mm. Those make 166,3 cm and on top of that surface you mount the scope. And the eyepiece of course sits couple of centimeters from the mounting plate. Is this right? I´m 187 cm, so I also need that scope pretty high.

I'm starting to lean on the 88A, VA-5 could maybe handle it if I balance it properly, it weights 1840 g.

 

[jring]

Hi,

star testing with an artificial star before buying will certainly look a bit nerdy but it's the only way to snag up a really good example...

If you want to use a tripod with the center column up at 60x (or more if you have a good example and the extender), I wish you good luck and no wind.

Joachim, who doesn't care to look nerdy and prefers his tripod center column down...

 

[wllmspd]

I use an angled eyepiece and don’t run it too high so I can let less tell people have a look at the view… it’s good to share. Also means you don’t need to extend the tripod to high, which keeps it more stable.

Peter

 

[Koplari]

Hi,

star testing with an artificial star before buying will certainly look a bit nerdy but it's the only way to snag up a really good example...

If you want to use a tripod with the center column up at 60x (or more if you have a good example and the extender), I wish you good luck and no wind.

Joachim, who doesn't care to look nerdy and prefers his tripod center column down...

I use an angled eyepiece and don’t run it too high so I can let less tell people have a look at the view… it’s good to share. Also means you don’t need to extend the tripod to high, which keeps it more stable.

Peter

Once I have that ST-124, I can test it with the 821 and see would if it would fit my purposes. Can you recommend sturdier tripod, carbon fiber, price point 300-500$?

 

[rockwind]

Once I have that ST-124, I can test it with the 821 and see would if it would fit my purposes. Can you recommend sturdier tripod, carbon fiber, price point 300-500$?

The innorel brand, found on eBay or Amazon, is best bang for the buck. IMO. I have 2. At your price point, I see no other alternative

 

[GrampaTom]

Hi! Haven't got a Meopta on my hands to test it, only Kowa's and few Swarovski. I'll definitely consider it if I happen to come by one and can test it out.

Hi!

As far as I understand, that ST-124 is 1580 mm tall, VA-5 (not VA-8) is 83 mm. Those make 166,3 cm and on top of that surface you mount the scope. And the eyepiece of course sits couple of centimeters from the mounting plate. Is this right? I´m 187 cm, so I also need that scope pretty high.

Kopari, has anyone directed you to Tringa's article on tripod and scope buying? You can find it here:

A Tripod Primer

Requests for advice on tripod purchase are often posted on birdforum and frequently I am surprised that birders are prepared to spend large sums on a scope but try to scrimp on a tripod and head. A scope not only magnifies the subject but it also magnifies angular disturbances. With an...

www.birdforum.net

The simple formula he describes in that paragraph under Dimensions - "Taking eye position, the height of the tripod head and the scope into account, one could say that the minimum tripod height should be one's own height minus 30 cm for a straight scope or minus 50 cm for an angled scope." works!

Im a USA dummy, so dont do metric unless forced to. That said, 187CM looks like a bit over 6'. Im 6'3" (you can convert), and bought the Sirui ST-224, which I dont believe Ive ever seen discussed here. With angled Opticron 77 on a VA5 head, this tripod fits perfectly with John's recipe. I can use it most of the time with center tube all the way down and when need to extend it to look at stuff close/overhead, the extension is minimal. Sirui website is a drag. I spent some time on it and with the assistance of a very helpful dealer we came up with this tripod. Im happy. Fits fine, CF legs, smaller top plate so leg circle is reduced for more comfortable shoulder carry, twist lock leg joints. Steady enough for birding. I use left hand on focuser/scope body and right on tripod adjusting rod, and things steady up just fine except in howling wind, which it has survived.

Its in your budget, too.

 

[Koplari]

The innorel brand, found on eBay or Amazon, is best bang for the buck. IMO. I have 2. At your price point, I see no other alternative

I'll check that brand out.

Kopari, has anyone directed you to Tringa's article on tripod and scope buying? You can find it here:

A Tripod Primer

Requests for advice on tripod purchase are often posted on birdforum and frequently I am surprised that birders are prepared to spend large sums on a scope but try to scrimp on a tripod and head. A scope not only magnifies the subject but it also magnifies angular disturbances. With an...

www.birdforum.net

The simple formula he describes in that paragraph under Dimensions - "Taking eye position, the height of the tripod head and the scope into account, one could say that the minimum tripod height should be one's own height minus 30 cm for a straight scope or minus 50 cm for an angled scope." works!

Im a USA dummy, so dont do metric unless forced to. That said, 187CM looks like a bit over 6'. Im 6'3" (you can convert), and bought the Sirui ST-224, which I dont believe Ive ever seen discussed here. With angled Opticron 77 on a VA5 head, this tripod fits perfectly with John's recipe. I can use it most of the time with center tube all the way down and when need to extend it to look at stuff close/overhead, the extension is minimal. Sirui website is a drag. I spent some time on it and with the assistance of a very helpful dealer we came up with this tripod. Im happy. Fits fine, CF legs, smaller top plate so leg circle is reduced for more comfortable shoulder carry, twist lock leg joints. Steady enough for birding. I use left hand on focuser/scope body and right on tripod adjusting rod, and things steady up just fine except in howling wind, which it has survived.

Its in your budget, too.

Hi Tom,

and thanks for the article. As I mentioned, I have Kowa 821 on loan, but also got an 883 to use until autumn. I paired the 883 with the received ST-124 and they work perfect together. Tripod is tall enough for my needs, I can lift the eyepiece above my eye level. ST-124 is not the most stable tripod, but it suits my needs. By hanging something, like a backpack, from the center column hook, it stabilises a fair amount. I'll check that ST-224 out.

 

[Elkhornsun]

After using a number of scopes I settled on a 65mm angled scope from Pentax. More than adequate and lighter than the 80mm to 85mm scopes. Vortex Viper or Vortex Razor scopes are on sale now at B&H in NYC.