Zeiss SFL 8x40, A Field Review (4 Viewers)

[Conndomat]

Colour is personal because it is our own brain that applies the colour.

Hello Lee,

Color perception is certainly somewhat subjective, but I ask myself the question why I perceive the green emphasis, especially in the SF 8x42, as very clear, especially in comparison with other manufacturers?

I recently compared the SF to an NL and Noctivid, and the differences really jump out at me.

Why can't I see this clear emphasis on green in other binoculars?

Since the FL, all Zeiss models have had a more or less strong green cast in the image, which I can't find with comparable manufacturers, not a problem but visible to me.

Andreas

 

[exup]

That is the comparison that would have interested me: EL vs SFL, because they are rivals fighting over the same slot in the market.
For sure you can discuss SFL vs more expensive models but that is an entirely different question.

It would seem to me that Denco, Binomania and others are suggesting that the SFs & NLs are the target comparison that interests them.

It has been suggested that apart from slightly less FoV and possibly a bit of CA, that SFLs are a worthy alternative, especially if glare has been improved too.

Maybe a 8x40 SFL is a better option than 8x32 SF ??

 

[Loud Green Man]

Very strange coatings with not a hint of green!

LGM

 

[Conndomat]

Very strange coatings with not a hint of green!

It is always a bit difficult to deduce the color rendering from the coating, which is also proven by the frequent change with the Noctivids, but the color rendering is identical.
Incidentally, the SLC 56 lenses have a very similar color coating, but do not have such a clear green area.
In addition, according to the logic, the color rendering in the EL should be clearly green, but it is not.

Andreas

 

[Troubador]

Hello Lee,

Color perception is certainly somewhat subjective, but I ask myself the question why I perceive the green emphasis, especially in the SF 8x42, as very clear, especially in comparison with other manufacturers?

I recently compared the SF to an NL and Noctivid, and the differences really jump out at me.

Why can't I see this clear emphasis on green in other binoculars?

Since the FL, all Zeiss models have had a more or less strong green cast in the image, which I can't find with comparable manufacturers, not a problem but visible to me.

Andreas

Why have I never been able to see this 'green emphasis' in any Zeiss no matter how hard and how long I have looked at my neighbour's white van and searched for any sign of green?

As you so rightly say "Color perception is certainly somewhat subjective".

Lee

 

[Vespobuteo]

It's time for me to complicate this again. I wonder who else, like me, sees the Zeiss color rendering as blue rather than green? (I feel less hesitant to say that because I have read it described as blue at least once on this forum and a friend sees it thus.)

If you mean he black grouse photo, representing the SFL (vs the other with green cast).
Yes it has a blue cast to it. The snow looks blue rather than white.
White balance seems to be off about 300 Kelvins.
Back in the days in analog photography one used to use a skylight filter to avoid such a blue color cast.
Now you can adjust WB in software.

 

[Troubador]

It would seem to me that Denco, Binomania and others are suggesting that the SFs & NLs are the target comparison that interests them.

It has been suggested that apart from slightly less FoV and possibly a bit of CA, that SFLs are a worthy alternative, especially if glare has been improved too.

Maybe a 8x40 SFL is a better option than 8x32 SF ??

Yes indeed and thats fine.
But to me SF 8x32 is a totally different animal. It is of course less bulky being a 32mm and not 40mm. It has a field of view nearly 24% bigger (by area) so this difference is not 'slight' at all IMHO. I never find eye placement tricky on 32s and since the different in twilight performance of a 42mm compared to a 32mm is measured only in minutes there is no advantage to me to consider a 40mm. I can understand some folks wondering whether SFL could save them some money by them avoiding the temptation of an SF32, and SFL does have a unique colour presentation but nevertheless this is not a question that fascinates me.

Lee

 

[Troubador]

If you mean he black grouse photo, representing the SFL (vs the other with green cast).
Yes it has a blue cast to it. The snow looks blue rather than white.
White balance seems to be off about 300 Kelvins.
Back in the days in analog photography one used to use a skylight filter to avoid such a blue color cast.
A filter not unlike the transmission profile of some typical Zeiss bins...
Now you can adjust WB in software.

And yet to me this colour cast is green, but I have never seen it through any Zeiss binos.

Lee

 

[Ruff-Leg]

Thanks for posting, if you read the brochure, the SFL seems lacking compared to the SF. The lack of FL glass causes it
to show a green tint according to the photos.......
The Zeiss advertising is very busy and confusing. I am not sure who is excited by their style. The redhead on the first
page seems to be the main thing going for it....
Jerry

The ‘model’ is Debby Doodeman, one of Hollands best female birders, who also happens to be my girlfriend 😃. We were invited as ZEISS ambassadors to the photoshoot last year. I will pass on your compliments to her.

https://www.fogol.nl/over-fogol

Cheers
James

 

[GrampaTom]

And there are plenty of folks who settle down with their 'alpha' and happily continue to rely on it. On the ferries going over to the Western Isles of Scotland or Islay we regularly see folks with old Trinovids and Dialyts.

Lee

Ahh, that would be ...me. 35 years Zeiss 1040B, 3 years EL 1042. Another winter migration down, (7th), my informal bino line count continued. Mostly lower priced models of Nikon, (thank you REI?). A bunch of stuff I cant id by sight. Number one alpha Sawro EL, by far. My first NL, a 1042, not on the neck of a wannabe, but a biologist, tour leader. My first SF a 42, who's wife had an EL 32. X is harder to get as we tend to talk about birds out and about.

 

[Thotmosis]

Why compare too models that are close in retail price? Because they are obvious competitors.
That is the comparison that would have interested me: EL vs SFL, because they are rivals fighting over the same slot in the market.
For sure you can discuss SFL vs more expensive models but that is an entirely different question.

Lee

I agree, otherwise it would be like comparing a Black Grouse with a Famous Grouse

 

[Vespobuteo]

And yet to me this colour cast is green, but I have never seen it through any Zeiss binos.

Lee

Both grouse images have a cast, one is green (pretty obvious), the other is blue.
See the attached photo in my previous post to illustrate the blue cast, vs a "correctly" white balanced image.
But what's "correct" depends on the scene obviously...and we weren't there...

Looking at a white wall in daylight I can see a slight tonal difference between my EL SV and FL:s but that's pretty much it.

In real life birding, both works just fine,
White looks white, and blue tits look blue (but wow how those birds can differ in color individually, more than any bins do) and robins, they look red(ish)...
No surprises there.

 

[Vespobuteo]

Hello Lee,

Color perception is certainly somewhat subjective, but I ask myself the question why I perceive the green emphasis, especially in the SF 8x42, as very clear, especially in comparison with other manufacturers?

I recently compared the SF to an NL and Noctivid, and the differences really jump out at me.

Why can't I see this clear emphasis on green in other binoculars?

Since the FL, all Zeiss models have had a more or less strong green cast in the image, which I can't find with comparable manufacturers, not a problem but visible to me.

Andreas

Did you do a blind test? Don't underestimate the psychology behind...

Otherwise I think light conditions might affect the result. The difference might be more visible in mid-day when the light temperature is higher and there is more blue light content that can be filtered out? And in the golden hour, anything looks golden, even through a Swarovski...

Switching between Kowa and Swarovski scopes did make me notice color casts pretty clearly.

Between my EL SV and FL not so much.

 

[GrampaTom]

Why compare too models that are close in retail price? Because they are obvious competitors.
That is the comparison that would have interested me: EL vs SFL, because they are rivals fighting over the same slot in the market.
For sure you can discuss SFL vs more expensive models but that is an entirely different question.

Lee

Very nice review, Lee - thank you!!
Wish I would have been out there as well.

Question: what‘s your view, would you think the SFL may cannibalize some sales of the SF - perhaps both x42 and x32?

Canip

You didnt ask me, but I can predict.... Each year when we summed up the work and described what new and improved thingies were going to the warehouse and next year's catalog, our CEO would say, "Ok, I've listened to you guys all year tell me how great these are and how may sales we'll accomplish as new, or from the other guys. But lets be real, next month I want to see a forecast of the effect of cannibalization on our existing stuff."
-----------------------
Still thinking about Canip's question in #3 above, re cannibalization and Lee's first impression. Based on conversations posted here prices seem to vary around the world, (whats up with Canada?). Used US $ here. Based on how one values performance, would seem these prices suggest competition from the SFL for several current "best" models. While the EL 8.5x42 is closest, would seem the SF 832 needs to be looking in its rear view mirror as well, for instance. Confess I wonder, if the SFL stays at $1800. or ends up a bit discounted once the pipeline is filled, as it is so close to the SF and so far from Conquest?

Included Lee's favorite Square area FOV, (albeit calculated at 100).

---------------------



Apologies for quoting myself. Lee the last 2 were #6 and #20 at the start of all this. Youve argued several places here, do to price, the SFL and EL were direct competitors. In a world of 2 choices Id agree. But thats not the case is it? Just reading here on BF, its clear different folks weigh attributes differently. The choice to buy is not simply price based. A case can be made that folks who can/will afford binoculars at this level are not particularly price sensitive. Other things influence their decision. Many who come here are bino collectors, as much maybe more than birders. Some even admit that. What influences THEIR decision? Then to, what about access? On line or local retailer? Many still buy on convenience or a relationship, preferring to do business with a local trusted seller, even if all choices arent there. Kind of an old school thought, maybe. Point? Its not so simple. Zeiss may have thought, (indeed your friends there may have discussed), their goal of knocking off the EL and stranding Swarovski out on a limb with that very high priced NL. Maybe. Most here seem to suggest they see this so far abstract decision differently. There's much we don't know yet. A year from now, after the SFL has been around we'll know more. We don't know what else is coming from whomever. Its all fun. Unless you're getting paid to think about and forsee all this, then its work.

 

[Grando]

Well, I finally looked through the 8x40 and 10x40 SFLs a couple of days ago. I was very underwhelmed with the 10x40 which certainly lacked the clarity of the 8x40 for me (more CA, I suspect). The 8x40 seemed a decent pair of bins though.
I was, however, really after a 10x, and ended up making the mistake of looking through the NL Pure 10x32 (as well as the SF). I ended up buying the Swaros, something I did not go in the shop expecting to happen!

 

[Conndomat]

Did you do a blind test? Don't underestimate the psychology behind...

No I haven't!
I used to have a Zeiss Octarem and a Dodecarem because the yellow color cast was more in the foreground.
I noticed this shade of green in a FL for the first time, I hadn't heard or read any reports about this phenomenon before.

Otherwise I think light conditions might affect the result. The difference might be more visible in mid-day when the light temperature is higher and there is more blue light content that can be filtered out? And in the golden hour, anything looks golden, even through a Swarovski...

Regardless of the intensity of the illumination, Zeiss always shows a slightly higher emphasis on green for me.
I also see small differences between the models, on the SF the green is the most noticeable for me, with the Conquest, on the other hand, it is rather minimal.

Andreas

 

[Upland]

I deliberately avoided getting into comparing SFL with SF 8x32 because I wanted to concentrate on finding out what SFL's talents are during the limited time period before I had to return it to Zeiss. And comparing two binos in different price categories didn't seem useful. If I had had a Swarovski EL available at the time then a comparison would have been very interesting as they are very close on retail price, SFL being £50 less.

Lee

I tend to agree Lee however was wondering if you thought the SF was worth the extra money. I know that’s subjective but I value your opinions and you have had extensive time with both. Mute point for me at this point since I’ve ordered a pair of SFLs. Also the SF price is out of my range although I’ve seen some attractive prices on used ones. As always its a pleasure to read your reviews and am glad you’re getting out this summer!

 

[Upland]

Well, I finally looked through the 8x40 and 10x40 SFLs a couple of days ago. I was very underwhelmed with the 10x40 which certainly lacked the clarity of the 8x40 for me (more CA, I suspect). The 8x40 seemed a decent pair of bins though.
I was, however, really after a 10x, and ended up making the mistake of looking through the NL Pure 10x32 (as well as the SF). I ended up buying the Swaros, something I did not go in the shop expecting to happen!

Glad you like the NLs. I was underwhelmed by them. The glare was horrendous. Compared directly with SFs with a salesman and we both were amazed at how poorly the NLs Handled glare. Perhaps we had a bad sample. Will be interested to see what you think of them after you’ve had them for awhile. Hope it was just a bad sample I tried.

 

[Upland]

BTW did you try the SF 10x32s? They were absolutely delightful when I tried them.

 

[henry link]

Here's a blind test (sorry, not double blind). The image below shows a "white" screen with two binoculars in front of it. The background color is the screen as the camera records it directly. The two circles are what the camera records after light from the screen has passed through the binoculars. What do you see?