Zen Ray ED....initial impressions (2 Viewers)

[falcondude]

The customer service from ZR is always responsive and I am sure they will straighten it out for you.

It is sunny outside and I looked up the branches in my backyard against the lumination from the sun. I can barely see any color fringing along the edge of the tree branches. I also tested the "mirage" effect. I was looking at the concrete sidewalk as it is probably the hottest place after being warmed up throughout the morning. Yeah, there are there. I can see it with my EL too. I tend to agree that the extra clarity and magnification reveal things better.

 

[bcl05]

I've just gotten back from the first significant chance I've had to use my new 8x ZR. The bottom line is that I couldn't be happier. It fits my hand ideally. The focus is smooth and easy, with just enough tension to feel "responsive" without being work to move it. It makes it feel very intuitive to focus. The eyecups on mine are fine, though I haven't extended them much, since I am eye-glass dependent. I think I need a new prescription, though. My view of birds through the ZR are clearer than the screen on the computer I'm typing on...

Thanks for the recommendation - I love my new bins!

 

[Kevin Purcell]

Other than what you mentioned and Kevin's one issue with focusing tension (which has been subsequently addressed) I do believe that you would be entirely happy with your replacement. Out of the limited sample we have seen distributed to consumers so far I haven't really seen any issues focusing on optical performance variation. I would be willing to bet that a replacement model would be equally as good optically as the one you currently have in your possession.

The replacement 8x I got was optically as good as the previous one

But it had two lesser issues with this bin.

There is a small piece of debris in the eyepiece lens assembly almost at the left edge. I can focus on it if I move my eye to the right and rack my eye's accommodation back (otherwise it's defocused blob). That's probably why the QC person missed it. Most of the time I don't see it but when I pan it pops up (gotta love the brain's visual system for detecting "changes" and "movement"!). This is another of those "should I return it or not" issues. It's just at the edge of being annoying depending on my mood (and if I'm panning).

And the left eyecap assembly was "up" a little (perhaps a mm or less) so you can see a little gap just above the black ring marked "Phase coating" and it's not quite flat. So I think perhaps you got an extreme version of that problem. Probably an assembly issue.

Comparing to the three other bins I've had they've all looked equally optically good.

 

[Kevin Purcell]

Sharpness is certainly part of it but this "clarity" thing is a bit more than that. I'm slightly miffed I can't give a better desription than this obviously "Hi Fi Review" style language ("wooly bass" etc).

It's rather close and the ZR do look rather good but as I could see the haze in both the PM and the Hawke against the SE I'm reluctant to say "they're as clear as the SE". But it crossed my mind. I still have to do the obvious comparison which is the Zen Ray 8x versus the Nikon SE 8X32.

So I did take them out but I've been having problems with my ISP since then.

Result:

Nikon SE is sharpest (just) then the Zeiss FL 8x32 and then the ZR ED. But they're all rather close. You can see it in an ABC test like this but otherwise you might not notice.

As regards this "porro clarity/transparency" thing the visual conditions were the same as when i'd previously tried this (blue sky, low angle sun, trees and power line Ts as targets).

Again the Nikon SE is most "clear" (just) then the Zeiss FL 8x32 which has only a hint of this "haze" I go on about but it's almost not there. Then the ZR which is very similar in "clarity" to the Zeiss.

I was rather surprised by this as I remember the Promasters (which I didn't include in this ABCD test) being slightly more obvious "hazy". If I get the chance again (with the same conditions, it's overcast from the warm front today, I'll try again).

But overall I'm really rather impressed (and a bit surprised by this outcome): both by how close the Zeiss FL is to the SE and by how close the Zen Ray ED is to the Zeiss FL.

Note: For those who haven't been following my ramblings on this: this issue isn't a huge one (and I think is a bit controversial). Don't take the word "haze" literally and these must be crap bins. I just don't have a good word for this effect. Another thing I'm wondering about is if this "clarity/haze" is related to the way I see "edge sharpness" or some other effect? Though I felt pretty sure that this was just from the central part of my vision.

 

[FrankD]

I was rather surprised by this as I remember the Promasters (which I didn't include in this ABCD test) being slightly more obvious "hazy". If I get the chance again (with the same conditions, it's overcast from the warm front today, I'll try again).

Curious. For whatever reason I had much the same "feeling" this afternoon. It was actually warm enough (45 F) here today for me to sit outside with a few of the bins. The Zen ED performed admirably and I thought it compared very favorably in terms of sharpness and clarity to the porros I had on hand. Ofcourse it faired better in color fringing control and brightness when compared to two of them but still a hair better than what I remember of the Promasters. I envy you for having both bins in your possession right now as I would love to compare their optics.

Note: For those who haven't been following my ramblings on this: this issue isn't a huge one (and I think is a big controversial). Don't take the word "haze" literally and this these must be crap bins. I just don't have a good word for this effect. Another thing I'm wondering about is if this "clarity/haze" is related to the way I see "edge sharpness" or some other effect? Though I felt pretty sure that this was just from the central part of my vision.

I do know what you are referring to. I believe it is somewhat of a combination of several factors (brightness, sharpness, depth of field and reduction of CA). That might explain why most porros have it, at least in a good portion of the center of the field of view, and most roofs do not.

 

[Kevin Purcell]

The other thing of note in the ABC test above was (not unexpected) stray color was absent in both the ZR ED and the Zeiss FL (both with ED objectives) and could be seen in the SE particularly on the wings of flying crows against a blue sky. I find the motion stimulates the detection of stray color so even when you don't see it in "nromal" use I sometimes can see it around the flapping crow's wings.

So that leads to other comments I've made before about perhaps the last little bit of CA being cleaned up making the bins seem sharper in normal use (though they would have the same resolution if you measured it at one wavelength). Yet the bin with CA (the SE) seems sharper to me in normal views. Of course, I don't really understand why that should be so but it seems to be what I observe.

 

[FrankD]

So that leads to other comments I've made before about perhaps the last little bit of CA being cleaned up making the bins seem sharper in normal use (though they would have the same resolution if you measured it at one wavelength). Yet the bin with CA (the SE) seems sharper to me in normal views. Of course, I don't really understand why that should be so but it seems to be what I observe.

Not to knock on the SE whatsoever (and quite the opposite actually) but what would you say to the thought that the superior 3D effect/depth of field might be contributing to the perceived level of sharpness? That is pretty much the only variable left now that you discounted the lower levels of CA.

 

[henry link]

Frank,

It's easy enough to eliminate the effects of objective spacing. Just cover one barrel and compare the binoculars as monoculars. Don't forget the illusion of a smaller image that accompanies the extra 3-D effect created by wide objective spacing. Smaller looking bits might be construed as sharper looking bits.

Henry

 

[FrankD]

I was hoping you would chime in Henry. Good point.

I will have to leave it up to Kevin to make the comparison though. I could compare the Leupold Cascade porro to the Zen Ray as they both "appear" to be equally sharp...at least to my eyes.

I don't want to put you on the spot Henry but I have to ask...have you felt the need, or actually gone through with, checking out any of these open-bridge ED style bins yet? I do remember a reference you made to checking out one of the Promaster EDs at one of the camera stores near your home but don't remember seeing anything afterwards. For what it is worth I think the Zen Ray might actually impress you a bit.

 

[chartwell99]

Zen Ray Customer Service

After some trepidation, I took Frank's advice and decided to contact Zen Ray customer service concerning my too tall right eyecup. Actually, they contacted me and the response, reproduced below is very reassuring. I will report how the process and replacement works out.

"We will send you a new pair of 8x43 ZEN ED first tomorrow morning. In the package, we will attach a return shipping label used for USPS Priority mail so you can send the defective binoculars (including strap, case and box for better protection of optics) back to us.

A significant defect like yours is not acceptable by our standard. Since we haven't seen this issue previously, it was not part of the final inspection process before we package and ship them. Now, it is. Thanks a lot for helping us to do a better job.

Once we receive the binoculars, we will study its defect cause and report back to you.

Best Regards

Charles"

 

[falcondude]

Frank,

It's easy enough to eliminate the effects of objective spacing. Just cover one barrel and compare the binoculars as monoculars. Don't forget the illusion of a smaller image that accompanies the extra 3-D effect created by wide objective spacing. Smaller looking bits might be construed as sharper looking bits.

Henry

How many of you actually use monocular for birding? I use spottting scope, and it probably does not count. I am just not used to watching birdies with one eye.

 

[FrankD]

Well that is pretty impressive customer service if you ask me and I would feel reassured as well. Please keep us updated on how the situation progresses. Customer service is always a big question mark with a new company.

 

[Kevin Purcell]

How many of you actually use monocular for birding? I use spottting scope, and it probably does not count. I am just not used to watching birdies with one eye.

I think Henry is suggesting a diagnostic test case to minimize the number of variables in a test not a whole new way to bird

 

[FrankD]

Hmm, does anyone actually use a monocular for birding. Short of actually referring to a spotting scope as a monocular I truly wonder if anyone uses one exclusively?

 

[mayoayo]

A monocular seems more like a Golf thing...I wouldn't mind to have a Universal Doubler,though(decent quality please)

 

[Tero]

The monocular is difficult to hold. We had one person looking for one, as he could only see with one eye properly. But the savings is very little, you are better off with a binocular even if one eye does not work. Plus focusing etc is easier.

The folding spyglass you see pirates using in movies is held mostly two handed.

 

[Kevin Purcell]

The folding spyglass you see pirates using in movies is held mostly two handed.

And of course those pirates had an eyepatch so what would they do with a binocular?

I can see the Optics subforum discussions on pirateforum.net: "Yarr, I see Zen Ray have new telescopes out. But what's with the other tube, matey. Too close to share with another pirate. 'Tis a mystery. And 10x ... that's fightin' talk, ye scurvey dog."

 

[Tero]

Are there devices where you look with two eyes thru one scope? I though there was, I think I have also looked with two eyes through a microscope.

 

[falcondude]

Are there devices where you look with two eyes thru one scope? I though there was, I think I have also looked with two eyes through a microscope.

maybe you are talking about binoviewer?

http://www.burgessoptical.com/Accessories/Binoviewer24.html

Anything compatible with spotting scope?

 

[Kevin Purcell]

Are there devices where you look with two eyes thru one scope? I though there was, I think I have also looked with two eyes through a microscope.

Yes, amateur atronomers use binoviewers for this. Half the light to each eye (minus a bit lost in the optics) but much less eyestrain. Though it doesn't work with an eyepatch.

But I fear were are now well off topic ...