Carl Zeiss 8x30 (1 Viewer)

[NDhunter]

I recently obtained a new binocular for my collection. I have many porros
more than a dozen, mostly Nikon models.

This is the Carl Zeiss Jena 8x30W, Jenoptem, multi-coated, and it is in lightly
used condition, with the flat brown leather case.

I really like view, bright with a sharp center view, I don't wear glasses and it works just right for me as far as eye relief.

The ser. # is 6206783, and I would like to know the year of mfr., the seller
said 1985.

The only condition issue is one of the plastic eyecups has a chip out of it, and
if someone could give me a lead on a replacement, I would appreciate it.

I have always had respect for the older porro's and this one performs very well even today.

Jerry

PS, you may notice my avatar, a very rare bird nest indeed. The eggs are colored because they are
pastel M&M's, yum, yum.

 

[Hornchurch]

'


I've just these last few days, bought a pair myself - 8x30 'Jenoptem' circa 1976-1977
(but sadly, mine are a lil' older than yours, in fact, just before the 'coating' change).

According to the site that most use, for dating production, yours falls 1984-1985

(numbers, indicating the latter, so your seller seems bang-on with his dating, if my reckoning is right)

Yours also have the later 'T3M' coatings - (which mine WON'T have).


Actually, I'd LOVE to hear from folks "the difference", to see how much 'inferior' the older ones are ?

Is the difference THAT noticeable ?

I didn't have the "option" of being extravagant - (cash-wise) - so, settled for what I've got.
(still nice)

I'm sure Binastro or some of the other (knowledgeable) chaps will be along soon, to explain !

Meanwhile, here's the pair I snagged.... P.S = The photo' isn't mine, T'was taken by the seller - (She's lovely, BTW !!!!!!)




.

 

[NDhunter]

Thanks for the date of mfr. request. I am wondering what site you have found that will date
these ?

Jerry

 

[Hornchurch]

Thanks for the date of mfr. request.

I am wondering what site you have found that will date
these ?

Jerry

'



Here ya go Jerry - This link pops up often, when folks are (Ahem), "Dating" :kiss::kiss:


http://www.europa.com/~telscope/zeissbin.txt



https://youtu.be/qLHXaZcuuoE


Also Jerry, you might enjoy seeing THIS very brief, short, concise video, ABOVE (not mine, just 'viewed' by me as well...)


.

 

[NDhunter]

Thanks for all of that, you are a very good source of information.

Jerry

 

[dries1]

Hornchurch,

Do you visit the "dating sites" ? Just kidding, nice glass.

Jerry,

Sometimes the eye-cups can be found on the bay in Germany, there are vendors there that can likely source one for you.

Regards,

Andy W.

 

[Hornchurch]

Thanks for all of that, you are a very good source of information.

Jerry

'



Cheers Jerry ; Ha, I wished !


Like you mate, I've had to ask around & delve into a subject where my knowledge is moderate, at best.

I vowed some time back, that I'd pick myself up a decent (not knocked-about) pair of 8x30's by CZJ

I do have some modern pairs, BaK.4 prisms (12x50, 10x50, 7x50 & one 8x40 pair), but until now, no 'Historic' stuff.

I've always hankered for the razor-sharp pair of 1950's porro-prisms that my Dad had (in the R.A.F)

By the mid 1970's, sadly, they had some (strange) "Black spidering - Ultra-Fine-Fungus" marks....

These manifest themselves like 'Germs' you'd see, when looking under a microscope !

Sadly, they were internal & me being a kid (circa, 12), tried to clean them !

I put everything back, super-duper carefully - Alas, no-change.

Cannot remember the manufacturer, BUT, they were a class-act, superb build quality & RAZOR SHARP.

(very heavy tho', as per a typical 1950's postwar pair).


Be nice "if" someone (far more), knowledgeable chimes-in...... (sage bush, waiting !)

Trouble is, these 8x30's are more common than dog$h!te over your local-park, circa 1970

I've noted that there ARE several other threads (kicking about), on same subject, on this forum alone.

Bit like reading 'yet another' Spitfire thread over on a U.K aircraft website (locals "switch off" :king


Like you Jerry, I'd also like to learn more, but these bin's aren't "Big League".

Here's hoping someone-else "chimes up" (knowledgeable), so we CAN learn more....


.

 

[NDhunter]

I am not sure if they are "big league" or not, but I like this model, it is very good, I know why it has been so popular.

I have tried most all of the best, and I like to experience the older stuff...

Jerry

 

[dries1]

Be nice "if" someone (far more), knowledgeable chimes-in...... (sage bush, waiting !)

Trouble is, these 8x30's are more common than dog$h!te over your local-park, circa 1970.


This made me laugh, and it was a good laugh, I needed that thanks. Some one will chime in, if not tonight tomorrow.

Regards,

Andy W.

 

[John A Roberts]

For a detailed historical overview, including the post-WWII CZJ 8x30 Porros, see the article by Arek at Allbinos: https://www.allbinos.com/170.1-article-Legendary_binoculars_-_Carl_Zeiss_Jena_Deltrintem_8x30.html

It includes information about the coating change in 1978 from single to T3M multi-coating


Arek also has individual reviews, including transmission graphs for:
- 7x50 Binoctem (from 1968) - single coated, for comparison with below: https://www.allbinos.com/233-binoculars_review-Carl_Zeiss_Jena_Binoctem_7x50.html

- 8x30 Jenoptem (#617k, dating from 1985) - multi-coated: https://www.allbinos.com/193-binoculars_review-Carl_Zeiss_Jena_Jenoptem_8x30W.html

- 8x30 Deltrintem (#620k, also from 1985) - also multi-coated: https://www.allbinos.com/192-binoculars_review-Carl_Zeiss_Jena_Deltrintem_8x30.html

While the graphs for the multi-coated versions show a respectable peak value there is then a significant decline in transmission


And for more information about the transmission and image colour of a variety of classic Porros, including a Deltrintem (from 1962) and a Jenoptem (from 1990),
see the article on Gregor Bernard’s Classic Binoculars site: http://classicbinoculars.blogspot.com.au/p/classic-porro.html
(the 2 modern units included for comparative purposes are: a Swarovski SLC Neu roof prism, so 2005 or later, and;
a Nikon EII Porro with a #810k serial number, so prior to the 2017 coatings upgrade)

Gregor also has reviews of a large number of classic Porros - see the buttons on the right side of the page


John

 

[Binastro]

Action Optics, Southampton probably has a replacement eyecup.

But he notes that there are different types, so ask first.

I think that the small missing part could be built up on the existing eyecup.

B.

 

[NDhunter]

John:

Thanks for that wealth of information. I have seen the Albinos articles and Arek does a thorough review.

It seems the Carl Zeiss Jenoptem does have a high rate of transmission, and that is nice to know how it
compares among many others.

The color link is very well done and complete. I do not place much in different color differences in binoculars,
as that is low in my list of things I like in binoculars.

I will admit, I see different levels of color in my eyes, one shows more color than the other. I only noticed this
directly one fall, seeing the bright reds and oranges of the leaves.

But as we should know, our brains average out what we see out of both eyes.

Jerry

 

[Patudo]

Trouble is, these 8x30's are more common than dog$h!te over your local-park, circa 1970


Like you Jerry, I'd also like to learn more, but these bin's aren't "Big League".

The above seems a bit harsh. Before "made in China" really got going, Carl Zeiss Jena and the JB manufacturers provided good optics at a more affordable price than Zeiss West or Leitz (which offered the Trinovid 10x40 at the princely sum of £500 back in December 1987). I'm sure I'm not the only FL/SF/HT owner for whom the Jena product served as the "gateway drug" to that legendary brand.

I also owned an 8x30 Jenoptem and although eventually replaced in the classic porro department by its West German rivals (which, however, not being multi-coated, are not as bright), a clean example in good mechanical condition would still be useful for light duty/more casual observation. If I did not wear glasses like the original poster I would probably still have it.

NDhunter - how do you find the CZJ compares to Nikon porros of that era ie. A and early E series?

 

[mbb]

I am quite curious about these old Zeiss Jenoptem/Deltrintem 8x30 binoculars, looking for a not too expensive, but good and pleasant to use pair of binoculars, for myself to bring along everywhere (e.g.leaving them in the car) and to lend to friends or family wanting «*just a pair of OK binoculars*» from time to time. It’s also because I’m curious about trying such a classic porro

These get good comments about center sharpness, FOV, constuction, brightness (for the multi-coated ones) etc. for the price, but less for reflection/glare (at least for the late models) and for off-center sharpness (combined with very strong field curvature). Sometimes I read those as just being some comments that are relative in the sence that they are of course no modern top bins, but still very good. But elsewhere I’ve read that these aspects are that bad that the binoculars are barely usable in bad light (not little light, but e.g.low sun etc. causing veiling/glare/reflections...) and with too distracting lack of sharpness except in the center, and therefore too annoying to use for birding at all.


Could you comment on your hands-on experience with them regarding these reflections/glare and off-center lack of sharpness? (That is often more valuable than lab tests.)


(The reflection/glare is e.g.also my main comment about my Kite Lynx 8x30 (comparable to Nikon Monarch 7 according to some), but I still consider those very(!) good binoculars that I really like using, except in some challending lighting. I don’t expect the same quality considering the price difference of course, but if anyone has experience with both,some comparative feedback is very welcome!)

 

[42za]

I recently obtained a new binocular for my collection. I have many porros
more than a dozen, mostly Nikon models.

This is the Carl Zeiss Jena 8x30W, Jenoptem, multi-coated, and itdded is in lightly
used condition, with the flat brown leather case.

I really like view, bright with a sharp center view, I don't wear glasses and it works just right for me as far as eye relief.

The ser. # is 6206783, and I would like to know the year of mfr., the seller
said 1985.

The only condition issue is one of the plastic eyecups has a chip out of it, and
if someone could give me a lead on a replacement, I would appreciate it.

I have always had respect for the older porro's and this one performs very well even today.

Jerry

PS, you may notice my avatar, a very rare bird nest indeed. The eggs are colored because they are
pastel M&M's, yum, yum.

Hello,

You have found a nice binocular , congratulations.

If you are unable to find a replacement eyecup , the chipped one can be repaired using the baking soda and superglue method , you will of course have to paint the repaired area black , but I don't think that this will be a problem.
Just work slowly and carefully and you will be successful.

Hope this helps.

Cheers.

p.s. Practice on a piece of scrap plastic first untill you get it right.

 

[Patudo]

In reply to mbb:

The 8x30 Jenoptem I owned was not good in glare situations, as a rough guide, very definitely worse in awkward light than the 8x30 SLC mark II. But, all the classic 8x30 porros I've tried, and (it seems, based on user experiences reported here) even the 8x30 Habicht with the latest coatings, are not good against glare, either. If performance against glare is important, something more modern may be a better choice.

Field of view is very good and always much appreciated when I use them, but only accessible when using the binoculars straight to the eyes (ie. those who were glasses must remove them). This is a serious limitation and was the reason why I sold my Jenoptem - I wanted to be able to use my binoculars without removing my glasses. Eventually I missed the experience of using a classic 8x30 porro so much that I bought not just one but two, but I use them with consideration to their weaknesses. This isn't an issue if you don't wear glasses - if so, I envy you.

Edge performance of the 8x30 Jenoptem is not too good by modern standards, but one needs to remember that the field of view of many modern 8x30/32 is smaller.

I think they are still good enough for casual observation and as a gift to close friends/family who are not so serious observers - I have been looking for one in good condition for just that purpose. The main issue is finding one in good condition and at the right price.

A number of commentators have said that the older Deltrintems (1950s-1970s) were better made but worse optically (not as bright due to single-coatings). Build quality of the Jenoptem, in my book, is only average, although it's worth noting that these were much less expensive than eg. the West German binoculars and many of them are still mechanically functional today, decades after the last ones left the Jena factory. I've often wondered whether the optical train remained the same through the years, and whether by fitting multi-coated prisms/lenses into an old body, you could get the best of both worlds. (Gary, Richard - if you're reading this could you offer your thoughts?)

 

[jring]

Hi,

the Jenoptem 8x30 looks genuine as far as can be seen from a single image.

In the 80s various common CZJ models were sold under their normal model names (Deltrintem, Dekarem, Binoctem etc.) and the generic name Jenoptem followed by the format in certain markets. The latter models were cheaper but as far as it is known - not different.

There is also the 1Q (first quality) marker which was used with the normal model names to indicate a higher quality version - once again without obvious differences.

A good multicoated example of the Deltrintem/Jenoptem 8x30 is still a nice pair to use - but not quite up to the top porro dogs - it will not quite have the center field sharpness and transmission of the Habicht, and be not quite as enjoyable as an E2 or a SE - the latter if you don't have the kidneybeaning problem...

So don't overpay... over here would pay 150€ for a mintish pair of CZJ 8x30 - that is if I didn't have an E2...

Joachim

 

[John A Roberts]

Hi mbb,

In relation to glare (and also ghosting), also see Holger Merlitz’s comments and ratings in his comparative review of 7 classic Porro 8x30’s at: http://www.holgermerlitz.de/seven8x30.html

The review includes the CZJ Deltrentis i.e. the IF version of the Deltrintem/ Jenoptem (the tested unit was a single coated specimen from 1973)
In the summary, Holger goes into additional detail about the Deltrentis' poor performance


John

 

[Patudo]

Hi John - a most relevant link which anyone tempted to dip his/her toe into the old porro market should read, along with the other links you've listed. My own opinion somewhat differs from Holger's in that I tend to prefer my own example of the Leitz 8x30 to my Zeiss West, mainly because of its superior brightness, though the latter does have better edge performance, and handles most beautifully.

Holger's mention of the 8WYJ was also of interest to me, as I had the pleasure of using one in Madeira, of all places, a few years ago. The example I tried must have had much improved coatings than the one Holger reviewed, as I thought its brightness compared very well with the 8x30 SLC mark II I had at the time. Performance against glare seemed better than the CZJ 8x30 (as Holger notes), build quality seemed solid, and in general I thought it was a pretty decent unit. The only shortcoming was that the unit I tried seemed to be out of collimation. I think I'd take a properly collimated example, minus reticle, over the Jenoptem I owned.

I can't help but mention Holger's note with regard to the 8WYJ: "One might argue that the Chinese engineers should rather have copied the Hensoldt or the Zeiss Oberkochen instead." I'm no fan of much of the PRC optics industry (while acknowledging most of it is driven by Western demand), but since no Western manufacturer seems interested - for perfectly valid reasons of their own - in producing, say, a multi-coated version of the later model Oberkochen 8x30B... I confess that if Kunming or some other skilled PRC factory were to manufacture something like that, I'd have to take a really serious look at it.

 

[NDhunter]

Patudo:

Don't get started with Holger Merlitz, and how he said the China types should have copied whatever.

China is trying to take over the world, the copy, clone thing is well known, don't even mention it. A very bad
thing.

Now, with China putting the entire world into a deep depression, with their Wuhan Virus, they are now the
enemy of all mankind.

For those watching, it will be hard for most on here to afford any new binocular when this comes full circle.

Jerry