Death Of The Alpha? (12 Viewers)

[[email protected]]

Hi Gunny you must have missed the latest episode in the ZenRay lack of response story: they have awakened and replied on here and are taking care of that repair.

As for the alphas, I think they are still the masterpiecs and marvels they always have been but for sure the mid-priced bins are running rings around them now for value for money.

Lee

"Mid-priced bins are running rings around them now for value for money."

I never thought you would admit that!o

 

[[email protected]]

Why?

Watches are a status symbol because you wear them on your wrist and it tells other people you have money if it happens to be a 14K gold Rolex. Binoculars are a tool you use for seeing things close.

 

[[email protected]]

I'm with Jerry on this - one of the reasons the alphas do cost more is their workshop/repair facilities, sometimes in multiple countries. I think the 'throwaway and replace' notion is more likely in those companies that do not support their customers in this way

But alpha's are getting more throw away all the time. It is true they don't bother repairing them all the time. It is cheaper to replace them.

 

[paddy7]

Obviously - and continuing the auto comparison - some repairs may be more costly to undertake than to replace. Any economically effective organisation is likely to take that approach. Thus, some will be repaired, and some replaced, but that is likely to be for a solid financial reason than any company strategy on the part of the alphas, or anyone else for that matter. Motor insurance companies 'write-off' at a lower and lower level as parts and labour become more expensive at dealers for the same reason.
The optics purportedly thrown into the bin are going to be dogs of the first water!

 

[BruceH]

Don't even mention Zenray in the same sentence with Tracts or Maven's.

Don't even mention Tract in the same sentence with Zeiss or Swarovski. :-O

 

[gunut]

I have seen a lot of refurbished alpha's for sale over the years. Camerland has them all the time.

Iv seen a lot of demos and open box [display,returns??] models....but dont recall any factory refurbished..???....:smoke:

 

[Troubador]

"Mid-priced bins are running rings around them now for value for money."

I never thought you would admit that!o

Thats because you don't read my posts, you skim over them and half the time use your imagination rather than your eyes.

How many times do I have to tell you that my Conquest 8x32 is one of my all time fave bins, and how much I respect Meopta and Kowa bins?

Lee

 

[Troubador]

Iv seen a lot of demos and open box [display,returns??] models....but dont recall any factory refurbished..???....:smoke:

I don't either Gunny and in my local photographic store I never see refurbished Canon or Nikon stuff either, but when my brother-in-law goes to the big photographic trade show every year there are a couple of booths there selling nothing but these factory refurbs. Don't see why that can't happen with sports optics.

Lee

 

[dalat]

Why is strange that there are not many refurbished bins on offer? Binoculars that can be repaired, are repaired. Those that cannot be repaired (with reasonable efforts) are replaced. In both cases there is nothing left that can be refurbished...

 

[[email protected]]

Thats because you don't read my posts, you skim over them and half the time use your imagination rather than your eyes.

How many times do I have to tell you that my Conquest 8x32 is one of my all time fave bins, and how much I respect Meopta and Kowa bins?

Lee

Yes. But I have never heard you express it in that way. "Running Rings around them" to me is a little different than liking them or using them. It is more extreme or emphatic. I do read all your posts and value your input a lot.

 

[dalat]

I would say Tract's and Maven's are just like Toyota and Leica and Zeiss are the Mercedes of the binocular world.

Everyone knows Toyota, you can buy a Toyota in every country of the world and Toyota is the global market leader. Tract and Maven are not at all like Toyota. And binoculars are not like cars.

 

[[email protected]]

Iv seen a lot of demos and open box [display,returns??] models....but dont recall any factory refurbished..???....:smoke:

If you look around there are refurbished alpha's for sale.

https://www.natchezss.com/el-range-10x42-refurbished.html
http://www.fieldsupply.com/nikon-monarch-7-atb-binoculars-8x42-refurbished.html
http://www.theoutdoorsforum.com/forums/topic/42173-leica-ultravid-10-x-42-just-refurbished-by-leica/
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Leica-8-12X42-Duovid-Binocular-Black-Refurbished/43192279

 

[[email protected]]

Everyone knows Toyota, you can buy a Toyota in every country of the world and Toyota is the global market leader. Tract and Maven are not at all like Toyota. And binoculars are not like cars.

Binoculars are like cars in that they are a manufactured consumer product that are subject to QA procedures. My point being some countries have a better reputation for producing higher quality products than others. Japan being one of them. China not so. Tract and Maven are like Toyota in that they are made in Japan.

 

[Troubador]

Yes. But I have never heard you express it in that way. "Running Rings around them" to me is a little different than liking them or using them. It is more extreme or emphatic. I do read all your posts and value your input a lot.

Okay, what I spelled out more emphatically this time was regarding value for money and I don't think I have read anything on here that suggests anybody disagrees with the notion that the closer you get to alpha prices the more you encounter diminishing returns. This only a posh or swanky way of saying the middle order runs rings around the alphas for value for money.

But this does not support the idea that alphas are dead or dying because it has always been the case that alphas have been priced way differently from the middle order. I can remember swapping my Swift Audubon for my first Zeiss Dialyt and the guy in the shop looking at the price list for the Zeiss and saying "I have no idea where these people dream up their prices from". But you see I wanted what was regarded as the best at the time and was willing to pay for what was regarded as the best and not another Swift or Ross that might have been better value for money.

No matter how good value the middle order bins become they will not become alphas so folks who want alphas will continue to buy them and other folks that seek the best value will be guided by that. Confused people like me will continue to enjoy both alphas and middle-runners for what they both offer.

Lee

 

[Torview]

I said it before but without the Alpha`s providing innovation that trickles down, the likes of Tract would`nt be as good as they are, and optical advancement will stagnate.

 

[[email protected]]

I said it before but without the Alpha`s providing innovation that trickles down, the likes of Tract would`nt be as good as they are, and optical advancement will stagnate.

I have heard that Kamakura is quite innovative in their own right. They are not just a build to order manufacturing facility. Many of their optical engineers hold many patents for optical inventions so I don't think if we lose a few overpriced alpha manufacturers that binocular progress will stagnate. You will just get more for your money from companies like Tract and Maven and you can count on them being very cutting edge. Many people have an incorrect preconceived idea of what Kamakura does. They can build a binocular just as good as Swarovski or Zeiss or Leica with less overhead so you get the same product for less money.

 

[[email protected]]

Okay, what I spelled out more emphatically this time was regarding value for money and I don't think I have read anything on here that suggests anybody disagrees with the notion that the closer you get to alpha prices the more you encounter diminishing returns. This only a posh or swanky way of saying the middle order runs rings around the alphas for value for money.

But this does not support the idea that alphas are dead or dying because it has always been the case that alphas have been priced way differently from the middle order. I can remember swapping my Swift Audubon for my first Zeiss Dialyt and the guy in the shop looking at the price list for the Zeiss and saying "I have no idea where these people dream up their prices from". But you see I wanted what was regarded as the best at the time and was willing to pay for what was regarded as the best and not another Swift or Ross that might have been better value for money.

No matter how good value the middle order bins become they will not become alphas so folks who want alphas will continue to buy them and other folks that seek the best value will be guided by that. Confused people like me will continue to enjoy both alphas and middle-runners for what they both offer.

Lee

My point is these newer Kamakura binoculars are getting so close to alpha performance and quality that for a lot of people they will do everything an alpha will for less money. I predict Nikon's alpha binoculars will be gone within a year followed by Leica then Zeiss and Swarovski unless they become more competitive pricewise.

 

[A2GG]

Watches are a status symbol because you wear them on your wrist and it tells other people you have money if it happens to be a 14K gold Rolex. Binoculars are a tool you use for seeing things close.

D,

Watches are tools too (used to tell time).

B

 

[mfunnell]

How many BF members actually bought and praise a Tract? 2 people?

I bought, have and like Tract Toric 8x42s. They are good binoculars. (I also have Maven 6x30s.) As good as my Zeiss FLs? Perhaps not, but still very good.

...Mike

 

[BruceH]

My point in posting these reviews on the Tract is that there is a similar theme in all of them which is the point of this thread. The point is that a great majority of the people writing feedback on the Tract are saying how close they are to alpha level binoculars and that is exactly my point. That is what really impressed me when I first tried them and compelled me to start a thread on them. They were the first medium priced binoculars that I tried that really are giving the big three a run for their money so to say. I have tried many sub-alpha level binoculars in the past but not until now could I say that about any of them. Because of how close these binoculars are to alphas's for way less money I really feel alpha's are going to lose a lot of market share to them and some brands like Leica and Nikon will get out of the alpha binocular market. Here is the main point in that review.

"I did some research and compared them to all the high priced binoculars and Tract either beat them or was equal to them. "

My point is that without more content, the review you quoted does not carry the weight your post implies. As is, it is another positive point on the trend line. Yes, that in itself is good.