Interesting Optics Trade discussion on where Leica binoculars are made. (1 Viewer)

[limonabe]

@limonabe Really interesting. I've read that the "Field Guide to Binoculars and Scopes" was published in 2011. Thinking about getting it (and considering the price), do you think it's still relevant? Or do you know about any other more recent publication that might have superseded it? (Maybe Holger Merlitz's book? Or is that too technical and in a different league?). Thank you for any clarification

Hi Yarrellii,

I've attached pics of the table of contents. These books are indeed expensive! As I don't read German I do not have Merlitz's book, but I would certainly buy it were it in English.

This book is the least technical of the four I listed. I'm flipping through it now and basically, this book is everything you ever wanted to know about the subject in a single volume. It's comprehensive.

 

[Mac308]

One thing I can tell you is I'll take Port "Produced In Portugal" any day over "Produced In Germany"

And I've never seen a bit of quality difference between Leica optics stamped "Made in Germany" (Left) over those stamped "Made in Portugal" (Right).

 

[[email protected]]

So if Leica supervises the production in Portugal (as I'm sure it does) you will, by your reasoning, also get a equally well produced product out of that land?? Basically nullifying your whole argument in fact.....

"IF Apple supervises the production very closely, you will get a high quality iPhone, but that doesn't always happen."

My point is Leica is not supervising the production in Portugal as well as they should, unless my first "lemon" Noctivid was just a poor sample. It is possible. I believe there was another member that mentioned he had to have his dealer hand pick a Portuguese made Noctivid to get a smooth focuser, whereas, the German made Noctivids had noticeably smoother focusers. Has anybody else had a bad experience with a Portuguese made Leica? My first Noctivid from Portugal was a PPOS.

 

[[email protected]]

That's pure prejudice. Get real:

China extends lead over U.S. in global patents filings, U.N. says

China was the biggest source of applications for international patents in the world in 2020 for the second consecutive year and extended its lead over No. 2 filer the United States, the U.N. patent agency said on Tuesday.

www.reuters.com

China may file more patents than the USA, but they are not for high tech items like Apple computers or iPhones. They are for all that junk they sell on Amazon like apparel, footwear, furniture, home fixtures, simple electronics, textiles, and toys and games.

 

[[email protected]]

Dennis, if I were you I’d quit. You’re no longer ahead, but I’d still quit! 😉

No longer ahead! I won this war a long time ago.

 

[dries1]

I own Leica from both Portugal and Germany, both function as manufactured so not an issue.
With regards to the China issue, only in a free society can there be true creativity.

 

[Conndomat]

Has anybody else had a bad experience with a Portuguese made Leica?

Yes I...

I had three early Noctivid models, (two 8x42 and one 10x42) all had faulty focusers, one also had a bad adjustment!

The real scandal was that these Portuguese binoculars were labeled with "Made in Germany"???
I immediately sent all three binoculars back to Portugal.

Andreas

 

[John A Roberts]

In terms of the value associated with labelling,
I’ll see the ambiguity of 'Designed by Zeiss' on the new SFL:

From post #45 by Henry at: New Zeiss binos 8x40 SFL and 10x40 SFL


And raise the incomprehensibility of 'Certified by Leica' (Say what?):



It’s on the side of a Panasonic zoom lens. See the Lens Rentals article at: Disassembling the Lumix S Pro R70-200mm f/4 OIS
(among other things that will interest some, the article shows the extensive use of plastics as structural components in a precision opto-mechanical device).

While Panasonic would seem to gain the value of association with Leica, it’s hard to see how the use in any way it enhances the Leica brand!


John

 

[[email protected]]

I own Leica from both Portugal and Germany, both function as manufactured so not an issue.
With regards to the China issue, only in a free society can there be true creativity.

I agree about creativity. What Leica's do you have from Portugal and Germany?

 

[[email protected]]

In terms of the value associated with labelling,
I’ll see the ambiguity of 'Designed by Zeiss' on the new SFL:
View attachment 1438402
From post #45 by Henry at: New Zeiss binos 8x40 SFL and 10x40 SFL


And raise the incomprehensibility of 'Certified by Leica' (Say what?):

View attachment 1438404

It’s on the side of a Panasonic zoom lens. See the Lens Rentals article at: Disassembling the Lumix S Pro R70-200mm f/4 OIS
(among other things that will interest some, the article shows the extensive use of plastics as structural components in a precision opto-mechanical device).

While Panasonic would seem to gain the value of association with Leica, it’s hard to see how the use in any way it enhances the Leica brand!


John

It would because you would think if Panasonic thinks highly enough of Leica to put Certified by Leica on their lens Leica must be a good company. It is good advertising for Leica.

 

[Richard D]

In terms of the value associated with labelling,
I’ll see the ambiguity of 'Designed by Zeiss' on the new SFL:
View attachment 1438402
From post #45 by Henry at: New Zeiss binos 8x40 SFL and 10x40 SFL


And raise the incomprehensibility of 'Certified by Leica' (Say what?):



It’s on the side of a Panasonic zoom lens. See the Lens Rentals article at: Disassembling the Lumix S Pro R70-200mm f/4 OIS
(among other things that will interest some, the article shows the extensive use of plastics as structural components in a precision opto-mechanical device).

While Panasonic would seem to gain the value of association with Leica, it’s hard to see how the use in any way it enhances the Leica brand!


John

I think the 'Certified by' stamp is basically just an optical design the Leica have 'approved', whilst the Leica labelled Panasonic lenses are designed by Leica but produced by Panasonic. The big advantage of the tie up for Panasonic was marketing (their own branded lenses are optically very good anyway) whilst Leica lacked both the digital expertise and production facilities for digital cameras.

Zeiss seem to be prepared to stick there name on pretty mediocre mobile phone cameras - presumably the income from licensing their name is economically worthwhile, but they may have a greater hand in design than I suspect.

 

[Mike F]

Are you sure they were truly Made in Germany? How did they smell? I can smell a German binocular at 50 yards away. They may have been counterfeits.

Dennis, have a look at this video. Big modern factory clearly showing the production of Ultravids. Have a very careful look at the calendar in the background at 3.26 to 3.28. I've taken a screen shot and enlarged it. It says Dezembro (Portuguese), and not Dezember (German).
The video is dated May 2016.

 

[forent]

China may file more patents than the USA, but they are not for high tech items like Apple computers or iPhones. They are for all that junk they sell on Amazon like apparel, footwear, furniture, home fixtures, simple electronics, textiles, and toys and games.

Good grief! (Or, as my kids would say: Cringe!)
Have you even looked at the short article (China extends lead over U.S. in global patents filings, U.N. says) that I linked? Then you should have read this sentence:

"The biggest single filer under this system last year was China’s Huawei Technologies Co Ltd for the fourth consecutive year and second was South Korea’s Samsung Electronics Co Ltd, WIPO said."

Embarrassing western hubris is one of China's determinants of success. Enough already - I call it a day.

 

[CharleyBird]

Well I've come to the conclusion that denco's Noctovids were manufactured in Portugal then sent to Germany to have the 'Made in Germany' label glued onto the focusser.
Unless they are a vintage prototype

 

[Conndomat]

Are you sure they were truly Made in Germany? How did they smell? I can smell a German binocular at 50 yards away. They may have been counterfeits.

After Chanel 5 of course!

Counterfeits from three different dealers?
With that luck I should probably play the lottery.

Andreas

 

[gweller]

Are you sure they were truly Made in Germany? How did they smell? I can smell a German binocular at 50 yards away.....

This has to to the most bizarre thing I have ever read on Birdforum! Ever! So how exactly does a German binocular smell Denis??

 

[gweller]

No longer ahead! I won this war a long time ago.

In your dreams maybe....

 

[dries1]

Andreas,

I appreciate your humor and not to take any of this seriously, others are getting their blood pressure up and I am laughing.

 

[Paultricounty]

I already did! I returned my NL 8x42 for bad glare, a sticky focuser and poor quality control, especially the armour with visible seams. I also returned my Portuguese made Noctivid for poor quality control. My new German made Noctivid 8x42 is at a different level of quality than the Swaro was or the Portuguese Noctivid. People may perceive some countries to have higher quality control than others, but that perception is based on EXPERIENCE with products from that country, so in reality it is based on fact. IMO, it is a FACT that Germany in general produces higher quality products than China. I don't care what you say, I have more trust in a product produced in Germany than I do in China because it is based on my experience with products from Germany and China.

You must buy a lot of those open box things that get banged around. I had over a half dozen and currently have 4 Swarovski’s, EL’s , NLs (not counting Habicht’s) and every one except one SLC had good focusers. Not always out of the box but with minimal break in. All were excellent. I had tried a German Noc before I bought the Portuguese one I now own. There was literally not one difference at all except, I thought the Portuguese one had a lighter focuser. I tried multiple German Ultravids and I’ve had Portuguese Ultravids that I thought had better focusers. So most will disagree with you based on experience. Only thing we might agree on is anything but China. My opinion is they likely will rule the optics world soon enough.

Considering how many duds you’ve been reviewing, maybe it’s not a bad idea to do some kind of evaluation of where and how to get good samples.
I think you buy, try something, sell it and forget the products quality.

Didn’t you have and say 10x32 NLs were the best of the best alphas, like not to long ago, last month wasn’t it.

 

[Troubador]

Well I've come to the conclusion that denco's Noctovids were manufactured in Portugal then sent to Germany to have the 'Made in Germany' label glued onto the focusser.
Unless they are a vintage prototype

Here is a challenge: ask any EU (or UK) dealer you know, how many times they have attended meetings at the Leitz Park in Wetzlar and have seen binoculars, any binoculars, being manufactured there. And seeing a lady applying a 'Made in Germany' label to completed binoculars does not count as 'manufacturing'.
And IMHO Leica Portugal make excellent binos and have done for decades.
Lee