Is it possible/advisable for me to adjust the collimation (1 Viewer)

[sammyboy]

After a phase of buying what I thought were 'value for money' but dissapointing bins, I've got a lovely pair of 8x20 BCA Trinovids today, secondhand. The view is wonderful - but I feel that the collimation is out ever so slightly. There's no double vision as such or eye strain but when I finish looking through the bins I can feel my eyes 'readjusting' and have brief double vision during this period. No feeling of strain or headaches so far whilst using the binoculars though.

Is it possible for me to adjust the collimation on these - is there an adjusting screw under the rubber armour? Or would I be better getting this done professionally - or simply leaving it as it is? I suspect the professional option would be best but money's a bit tight now, would rather try not to spend any money if I can help it, but on the other hand I don't want to ruin/further damage the Trinovids.

Thanks! B

 

[brocknroller]

After a phase of buying what I thought were 'value for money' but dissapointing bins, I've got a lovely pair of 8x20 BCA Trinovids today, secondhand. The view is wonderful - but I feel that the collimation is out ever so slightly. There's no double vision as such or eye strain but when I finish looking through the bins I can feel my eyes 'readjusting' and have brief double vision during this period. No feeling of strain or headaches so far whilst using the binoculars though.

Is it possible for me to adjust the collimation on these - is there an adjusting screw under the rubber armour? Or would I be better getting this done professionally - or simply leaving it as it is? I suspect the professional option would be best but money's a bit tight now, would rather try not to spend any money if I can help it, but on the other hand I don't want to ruin/further damage the Trinovids.

Thanks! B

Sammyboy,

I think the best advice is to call Leica and see if this repair would be covered under their Goodwill Policy, which AFAIK does cover used Trinovids.

However, as I saw with Ron's 12x50 Trinnie, they seem to be spotty in terms of what they cover at no cost and what they charge for. His repair wasn't costly, but certainly if you got a good deal on the 8x20s (did you buy them from dennis?), you don't want the difference in repairs to come up to full price, which it's unlikely it will if it's just a simple collimation issue.

What you describe sounds like the bin is slightly out. If you use them for longer periods, you probably will get eyestrain. I have an old bin that gives me the same feeling when I pull back from the EPs even though there are no double images and even stars are pretty sharp, but there's an uneasy feeling that they are not collimated properly, though I might be more sensitive to miscollimation than others (my mother used to tell me, never cross your eyes or they will stay like that, perhaps if I had crossed my eyes, they be better able to adjust to slight miscollimation today! .

Call or write Leica, see what they say. The repairs might be covered gratis or for a small fee.

Mommasboy

 

[sammyboy]

Thanks Brocknroller, I'll drop their service department an email and see what they say

I suspect I'm particularly sensitive to slight alignment issues too, I bet if I gave the bins to someone else to try they wouldn't find a problem at all!

Sadly I didn't get them off Dennis, they were off Ebay, cost me £235 - came in their original box and genuine leather case (though that said 'Leitz' on it which I'm guessing was older stock).

Slightly off topic, but I've been looking to see if these are the phase coated version - my serial number starts 140xxxx which from what I've read dates it to about 1999-2000ish so it should be phase coated, would that be correct? These are the green rubber armoured version that I've got.

 

[ceasar]

I have one.

Close it and put the objective tubes against each other. Look at it closely and see if the tubes appear to be perfectly parallel--aligned. They should be but sometimes an accident can change that and cause a slight deviation.

A while back I had an early model 9 x 25 Nikon Traveler which I kept in my car. It got a lot of rough and careless use. (Cheap Bin!8-P) One day I dropped it. When I picked it up and looked through it, it was clearly, to me, out of collimation and I set it aside. When I came back to it and examined it closely it appeared as if the tubes were pinched somewhat. I fiddled around with it, gently pulled the tubes outwards, heard a "click" put them up to my eyes and "Shazam!" They were OK again.

Bob

 

[sammyboy]

I've had a look and both barrels and they're still in line, guessing they've had a knock at some stage that's taken the collimation slightly out - or had one in the post! Still very pleased with them though.

 

[brocknroller]

I've had a look and both barrels and they're still in line, guessing they've had a knock at some stage that's taken the collimation slightly out - or had one in the post!

Still very pleased with them though.

Yeah, I hear they are as sharp as the 8x32 EDG, at least at 10 ft.

Not my cup o' tea, but the Leica compacts do seem to have the rep as being the best of the "brat pack".

<B>

 

[sammyboy]

They are ideal for my use, can go anywhere with me and the quality of the optics is more than good for me!

I've emailed Leica, they said they'd have to send the Trinovids off to Germany - though said they don't cover and damage from water or impact. I can't find any evidence of impact damage - no marks, dents or scratches on the binoculars but could they include collimation issues in with 'impact' damage?

 

[ronh]

Leica USA charged me $150 plus shipping to work on my 12x50 BN. The diopter setting was slipping. It was my fourth used Leica, so I didn't feel too bad. They fixed it, and according to the invoice also "cleaned, lubricated, adjusted and collimated". It was already in cherry condition otherwise, so I really can't tell they actually did anything else, but it's nice that they would have if it was needed. I got the impression that $150 is a flat rate for routine maintenance and minimal repairs not requiring parts.

The "Goodwill policy" is a thing of the past, if indeed it ever existed. I expect who ever dreamed that one up is out living on the street now (or maybe working for Zeiss!). Even though there are no dents, I imagine they will assume impact--these things don't "just go" out of collimation.

Fellow binocular fanciers, do not buy a used Leica without being crystal clear on this---the guarantee applies only to the original purchaser.
Ron

 

[brocknroller]

Leica USA charged me $150 plus shipping to work on my 12x50 BN. The diopter setting was slipping. It was my fourth used Leica, so I didn't feel too bad. They fixed it, and according to the invoice also "cleaned, lubricated, adjusted and collimated". It was already in cherry condition otherwise, so I really can't tell they actually did anything else, but it's nice that they would have if it was needed. I got the impression that $150 is a flat rate for routine maintenance and minimal repairs not requiring parts.

The "Goodwill policy" is a thing of the past, if indeed it ever existed. I expect who ever dreamed that one up is out living on the street now (or maybe working for Zeiss!). Even though there are no dents, I imagine they will assume impact--these things don't "just go" out of collimation.

Fellow binocular fanciers, do not buy a used Leica without being crystal clear on this---the guarantee applies only to the original purchaser.
Ron

Now that Leica's Goodwill Policy is no more, or at least doled out at their discretion, which is what it said on their Website, that drops Leica to the bottom of the premium bin warranty list.

Zeiss has a transferable warranty, Swaro's warranty is "you break 'em, we fix 'em, and return 'em in newer condition than when you sent 'em" including removal of "the mud, the blood and the beer")), and Nikon has its No Fault Policy.

$150 ain't bad at all, considering it's an alpha, but I would imagine for problems that required replacement parts, the cost could climb pretty steeply. Leica's lack of transferable warranty or No Fault Policy has kept me jumping on good deals on Leicas (which are pretty rare, mostly on Trinnies).

That $995 Duovid is about the best deal on a Leica I've seen in a while. But how much would it cost to fix if something goes wrong with its complex optics/mechanics? As they say, if you have to ask....

<B>

 

[14Goudvink]

Fellow binocular fanciers, do not buy a used Leica without being crystal clear on this---the guarantee applies only to the original purchaser.
Ron

I checked this earlier this year at the source (Leica in Solm, Germany) and was told that the guarantee is transferable. As long as you have the original invoice you have the guarantee. It doesn't matter if the invoice is in your name or not. I checked three times on the phone and every time the answer was: The guarantee is on the bins, not the owner. But maybe things are different in the US?

 

[14Goudvink]

Swaro's warranty is "you break 'em, we fix 'em, and return 'em in newer condition than when you sent 'em"

This describes the kind of service I received earlier this year from Leica...

I didn't break them, but they came back better than new

 

[sammyboy]

Thankyou for your input everyone, I think I might leave it for now - the miscollimation is only just perceptible really though definitely present. They've emailed me with a phone number of a contact so might give them a ring to see if I can clarify the warranty situation.

I think I might get them sent off when I've a bit more money or investigate local repair companies like Optical Repairs or Kays if not covered by warranty, think they've had good write ups from people on here.

 

[brocknroller]

Thankyou for your input everyone, I think I might leave it for now - the miscollimation is only just perceptible really though definitely present. They've emailed me with a phone number of a contact so might give them a ring to see if I can clarify the warranty situation.

I think I might get them sent off when I've a bit more money or investigate local repair companies like Optical Repairs or Kays if not covered by warranty, think they've had good write ups from people on here.

SB,

Meanwhile, start crossing your eyes regularly to build up your eye muscles to better handle slight miscollimation. However, remember what my mother said, if you do it too much, your eyes will stay like that. Just ask Megan:

http://www.freakingnews.com/pictures/58000/Cross-Eyed-Megan-Fox-58465.jpg

<B>

 

[ceasar]

Now that Leica's Goodwill Policy is no more, or at least doled out at their discretion, which is what it said on their Website, that drops Leica to the bottom of the premium bin warranty list.

Zeiss has a transferable warranty, Swaro's warranty is "you break 'em, we fix 'em, and return 'em in newer condition than when you sent 'em" including removal of "the mud, the blood and the beer")), and Nikon has its No Fault Policy.

$150 ain't bad at all, considering it's an alpha, but I would imagine for problems that required replacement parts, the cost could climb pretty steeply. Leica's lack of transferable warranty or No Fault Policy has kept me jumping on good deals on Leicas (which are pretty rare, mostly on Trinnies).

That $995 Duovid is about the best deal on a Leica I've seen in a while. But how much would it cost to fix if something goes wrong with its complex optics/mechanics? As they say, if you have to ask....

<B>

I note it had a slipping diopter. Would that make a difference?

Bob

 

[ronh]

Goudvink,
Leica USA was very clear in telling me to eat it. But, I didn't have the invoice either, maybe that would have helped.

Bob,
This place is so littered with slippery diopters, it's getting hard to walk!

Ron

 

[sammyboy]

Slightly off topic but would using these binoculars with slight miscollimation damage my eyesight in any way?

 

[brocknroller]

Slightly off topic but would using these binoculars with slight miscollimation damage my eyesight in any way?

Oh, my, yes. You will eventually become cross-eyed like Megan Fox until the muscles finally snap from the strain, and your eyes pop out of their sockets!

Here is a documented case of a birder before he started using miscollimated binoculars and after five years. I must warn you, it is not a pretty sight. Of course, his wide IPD no doubt contributed to the severity of the problem.

http://roadtickle.com/img/miscellaneous/the-ten-world-records/eye.jpg

<B>

 

[sammyboy]

Eek! That's it, they're going straight in the bin now! Either that or see if I can get a mini-plunger so I can shove my eyes back into place

 

[sammyboy]

After searching for something unrelated I stumbled across a post about someone having trouble with the collimation on their twin-hinged compacts if they had one tube extended and left the other one tucked in when adjusting the IPD.

I tried this on my Trinovids, then pulled them both out about equally to IPD. Just as in that thread - the collimation seemed worse (though still giving a single image, just took longer for my eyes to adjust) with one barrel exended and the other in it's storage position than when both were adjusted roughly equally! With the latter the collimation error almost - but not quite - dissapeared! There was a less of my eyes having to compensate for misalignment or readjusting after looking through the binoculars.

I didn't realise that the position of the barrels in compacts could affect collimation so much - or is this still indicative of a fault?

 

[Binastro]

Sammy,
It is unlikely your eyes would get damaged by slight miscollimation, but they might get tired especially for an elderly user.

It sounds to me as if the optical axes of the two barrels and the mechanical axes are not the same.

Both barrels should be perfectly parallel, whatever the IPD.
Each optic should have perfect collimation within itself and be parallel to the mechanical axis
The two optical axes should be parallel to each other.

Unfortunately most cheaper binoculars don't have this when new, and never will.

And some repairers just line up one barrel's optics with the other at their IPD or at 65mm standard.

The way to see if an optic is collimated within itself is to do star tests and examine out of focus images say of a bright star.
But your own eyes need to be good.

With the small exit pupils of a 10 x 25 this should be easier.

Incidentally, I paid little more than you did for an almost new 10 x 25 and got the Pasport transferred to me.

I wouldn't touch ebay for an expensive binocular unless I was able to thoroughly test them and had an absolute guarantee.
I got the 6 months shop guarantee and they are anyway about as new.

You may find that if you change the IPD to slightly wrong they are perfectly collimated.
This may be more restful for you and you may get a slightly wider field sideways doing this.
It may be they were recollimated by a not so good repairer by recollimating the good side to match the bad side, so they are both now wrong.

Incidentally, the repairers I know cannot do Zeiss, Leica or Swarovski modern binoculars as these companies don't sell spare parts to outside repairers.
They want to do the work themselves. Sometimes for free.