Leica UV 8x20 versus Zeiss Victory 8x25 (2 Viewers)

[PeterPS]

I think so but I cannot be sure because there is no scale. My correction is -1.5 and I can turn the ring further than twice that.

Thanks, that's exactly the way I would use to estimate the range of dioptric compensation.

 

[eronald]

I have stood on the 3d floor of the Eiffel tower in bad light and watched planes taxying on the runway of Roissy, in bad light 30 km away - and my Leica UV HD 7x42 couldnt resolve them. The Zeiss is Not a toy.

I have stood in the middle of a field and taken the Zeiss from my eyes to observe birds directly at 100m along a tree and water line because after a few minutes use I just can’t take more. The Leica I have used At the sea for long periods to watch gulls. Btw I’m not a birder, I dont identify birds, I just like watching them.

If the Zeiss experience matched its optics they would sell it at the price of an 8x32.


Edmund

 

[PeterPS]

I have stood on the 3d floor of the Eiffel tower in bad light and watched planes taxying on the runway of Roissy, in bad light 30 km away - and my Leica UV HD 7x42 couldnt resolve them. The Zeiss is Not a toy.

I have stood in the middle of a field and taken the Zeiss from my eyes to observe birds directly at 100m along a tree and water line because after a few minutes use I just can’t take more. The Leica I have used At the sea for long periods to watch gulls. Btw I’m not a birder, I dont identify birds, I just like watching them.

If the Zeiss experience matched its optics they would sell it at the price of an 8x32.


Edmund

Interesting, but can you elaborate on your comment on "the Zeiss experience"? What is it more concretely, and what bothers you? Do your eyes get tired, or something similar?

 

[[email protected]]

BTW, here is why I prefer the Zeiss to the Nikon. First picture is on-axis, Zeiss on the right, 2nd picture is off-axis, Zeiss on the left. So sure, the IS is great. But a stable image with less details because of lower-grade optics cannot recreate them.

A lot of the difference in the appearance of a sharper image could be attributed to the difference in magnification between the 8x Zeiss and 10x Nikon. A 8x will appear sharper because the images are smaller than a 10x, and they appear sharper. I see that all the time going from a 8x to a 10x. It is kind of like looking at a smaller screen TV next to a bigger screen TV from the same distance. The smaller screen TV will seem sharper. Also, a higher magnification binocular will show more CA than a lower one. Try your pictures with a Zeiss 10x25 instead of an 8x25 and the Nikon 10x25 IS and see how they look.

 

[[email protected]]

This is not true. I have the Nikon as well. IS is great and they are compact. But:

- FOV is very small
- Eye placement is not easier, quite the contrary which is to be expected from a 10x25 compared to a 8x25
- Eye relief is smaller, a lot. The Zeiss is perfectly comfortable with glasses, the Nikon is not
- Zeiss image is better. The Nikon has a lot more CA and is not as transparent, not even as good as my 20 years old Trinovid.
- Focusing is easier on the Zeiss: more DOF, a better designed focuser
- the Nikon is heavier: more than 400g when the Zeiss is around 300g
- the Nikon rainguard fits only when they are closed. Adding caps would not be as easy as with the Zeiss
- the Nikon as no rubber cover, metal contact with, well anything, is no joy
- the Nikon IS switch can activate when stored especially when using their lightweight pouch, eating battery. And the binocular cannot be used without battery
- The Nikon is not really smaller: see picture

I bought the Nikon for a very specific usage: archery. They can have a lof of other uses.
But as a "always with you small binocular", they are clearly not in the same league as the compact Alphas.
Unless you need IS, they are not a good choice.

- FOV is very small
Of course the FOV on a 10x will be smaller than your 8x Zeiss. The FOV of the Nikon 10x25 IS is 294 feet@100yds which is the same as the Swarovski 10x25 CL-P so it is very comparable to an alpha 10x25.

- Eye placement is not easier, quite the contrary which is to be expected from a 10x25 compared to a 8x25
I agree the bigger exit pupil will help with eye placement on the 8x25 versus the 10x25 but because the IS stabilizes the image so eye placement is easier.

- Eye relief is smaller, a lot. The Zeiss is perfectly comfortable with glasses, the Nikon is not
That is true. The Zeiss 10x25 has 16.5mm of ER versus the Nikon 10x25 IS which has 14mm which could be an issue for eye glass wearers but not an issue if you don't wear glasses.

- Zeiss image is better. The Nikon has a lot more CA and is not as transparent, not even as good as my 20 years old Trinovid.
The Nikon will have more CA than the Zeiss because it is a 10x and the Zeiss is a 8x magnification. Higher magnification binoculars usually have more CA. I find the Nikon performs very well controlling CA for a 10x especially since it makes no mention of HD glass in the specifications. Transparency is subjective and I don't see that big of a difference in my Nikon's although they are probably not as transparent as NL's.

- Focusing is easier on the Zeiss: more DOF, a better designed focuser
An 8x will always have more DOF than a 10x. DOF is solely determined by the magnification. The focuser is subjective. What is better designed for one may not be for someone else.

- the Nikon is heavier: more than 400g when the Zeiss is around 300g
An IS binocular is going to have to be heavier than a normal binocular because of the weight of the IS mechanism. I think Nikon did pretty a good making it only 400 grams heavier.

- the Nikon rain guard fits only when they are closed. Adding caps would not be as easy as with the Zeiss
Nikon designed the rain guard to fit when the binoculars are closed because most people fold their compacts, so they can put them in their pocket. A rain guard that folds with the binoculars can be hard to fold.

- the Nikon as no rubber cover, metal contact with, well anything, is no joy
i find the Nikon's comfortable to hold and their binoculars like MHG line do not use a lot of rubber armour to keep the binoculars lighter. Armour adds weight, and they probably wanted to keep these new IS binoculars a light as they could be knowing they were going to be heavier anyway with the IS.

- the Nikon IS switch can activate when stored especially when using their lightweight pouch, eating battery. And the binocular cannot be used without battery
I don't know why you would want to use them without a battery. The IS is a huge advantage so why would you not want to use it? I have never accidentally turned on the IS switch but I use a Lowepro Dashpoint 10 case for mine which is stiffer.

- The Nikon is not really smaller: see picture
It is pretty close and it folds up smaller being double hinged for ease of putting in your pocket. I think the Nikon IS is pretty small for a 10x25 IS binocular.

-"I bought the Nikon for a very specific usage: archery. They can have a lot of other uses.
But as an "always with you small binocular", they are clearly not in the same league as the compact Alphas.
Unless you need IS, they are not a good choice."
I agree with most of that but if you want to see more detail than a traditional alpha compact you do need IS. So it is a matter of trade-offs. You are trading the advantages of the alpha compacts for IS which increases your resolution by at least 50%. The comparison between the Zeiss 8x25 and the Nikon 10x25 IS is similar to the comparison between the Swarovski NL 8x42 and the Canon 10x42 IS-L. The NL might have slightly better optics and better ergonomics for sure but the Canon will kill it on detail every time. It is no contest.

 

[mbb]

If the Zeiss experience matched its optics they would sell it at the price of an 8x32.


Edmund

Interesting comment.
My partner always finds the 8x25 considerably less comfortable to use than the Ultravid 8x32 or my Kite Lynx HD 8x30. I also notice a difference, but seem to be less sensitive to it, apparently unless I'm tired...
I remember an evening when I was quite tired and suddenly there was a big difference in comfort for me between my Zeiss 8x25 and my Ultravid 8x32: I really couldn't appreciate using the 8x25 while I still did the 8x32. I was really surprised as I had always found the Zeiss 8x25 quite comfortable (certainly for a 25mm), also in the evening, and I still do enjoy using it.

 

[james holdsworth]

Dennis, just because you own it doesn’t mean you need to sell it too. Go enjoy it and don’t feel the need to convert everyone.

 

[[email protected]]

Dennis, just because you own it doesn’t mean you need to sell it too. Go enjoy it and don’t feel the need to convert everyone.

I am not trying to convert everyone. Is not all the praise of the Zeiss Victory 8x25 not intended to convert? Just pointing out all the advantages of IS. The reason IS binoculars have never been accepted by the mainstream birder is because they won't tolerate the downsides like increased weight and size and the fact that you have to put a battery in them and the optics are not quite up to alpha level. These Nikons have improved on a lot of the downsides of say the Canon 10x42 S-L but I admit they still have their weaknesses compared to a regular alpha compact. It is a step in the right direction. I fully understand the argument against IS and I still like the NL better than the Canon 10x42 IS-L because I hate the weight and brick-like ergonomics but the fact remains if you want to see more detail get an IS or a tripod. If Nikon can make a nice compact 10x25 IS I don't see why they couldn't make a nice ergonomic 8x42, 10x42 and a 12x42 with IS. Make them about the size of the MHG or a little bigger and keep the weight at about 28 oz. with the optics about as good and the FOV as wide and you would have one of the top binoculars on the market.

 

[Alexis Powell]

...I have two questions about the Zeiss:
*the location of the focuser seems to favor people who focus with their right hand, how is it if you try to focus using your left hand?...

Actually, the focuser on the Zeiss 8 or 10x25 Victory is probably better suited to focusing with left hand than with right. The design of this binocular is borrowed from some previous Zeiss models that were smaller (e.g. 8x20), in which case the asymmetrical design did a good job of positioning the knob for proper finger reach with average sized hands and right-hand grip (and, the reach was too short/cramped for easy left-hand use). The x25 models are larger, so the reach is just a bit longer than ideal for most users with right-hand grip but is quite good for focusing with left hand.

--AP

 

[eronald]

Actually, the focuser on the Zeiss 8 or 10x25 Victory is probably better suited to focusing with left hand than with right. The design of this binocular is borrowed from some previous Zeiss models that were smaller (e.g. 8x20), in which case the asymmetrical design did a good job of positioning the knob for proper finger reach with average sized hands and right-hand grip (and, the reach was too short/cramped for easy left-hand use). The x25 models are larger, so the reach is just a bit longer than ideal for most users with right-hand grip but is quite good for focusing with left hand.

--AP

I agree.

Edmund

 

[PeterPS]

When Peter says "Unless you need detail IS it is not a good choice" it is really hard to understand because why wouldn't you want to see more detail?

I have not said that, someone else did. In fact I am seriously thinking about buying a Kite APC 16x42 Stabilized (APC=angle power control). I owned several Canon 12x36 IS I, II and III as well as the 10x42 IS, and found the IS to be quite addictive, but there are downsides and compromises.

 

[[email protected]]

I have not said that, someone else did. In fact I am seriously thinking about buying a Kite APC 16x42 Stabilized (APC=angle power control). I owned several Canon 12x36 IS I, II and III as well as the 10x42 IS, and found the IS to be quite addictive, but there are downsides and compromises.

Agreed. Let me know how you like the Kite.

 

[pm42]

I have not said that, someone else did.

No I did. But this is quoting me out of context to sell the idea that the Nikon 10x25 IS is the best invention since the wheel.
What I meant is "there are downsides and compromises" just like you. And no, I do not always want to see more details if this is at the cost of FOV, brightness, 3D immersion, weight...

 

[mbb]

Not with the rainguard. I could remove it and use a smaller case the as the Op/Tech D-Mini but I find it less convenient. The Leica double-hinge allows me to carry them in a more compact case. When I close the Zeiss, I find it harder to fit them into most of the cases, in a pocket or in a bag so I them open.

Do you mean you put the Zeiss open/unfolded in the bag you show in your picture?
I am looking for a bag for my Zeiss Victory 8x25 with apparently the same rainguard and ocular caps as you. All bags I’ve tested in a store were either too small, or that big that it would make them pointless as a replacement for the original (only a little less wide,but mich thicker). Ideally, it would be a bag that is somewhat a hard case (as the original from Zeiss) but fitting snugly when the binoculars are folded with the rainguard and ocular caps on. But I guess it is wishful thinking to find such a case...
Could you tell me which model of bag it is that you use, as shown on your picture? It seems really nice. (I’m only doubting about the level of protection of just a layer of neoprene, as it would to ‘carry everywhere’.)
How well does it fit and does the Zeiss fit inside with or without the strap?

 

[pm42]

Do you mean you put the Zeiss open/unfolded in the bag you show in your picture?

No. I was not clear. Sorry.

Could you tell me which model of bag it is that you use, as shown on your picture?

OP/TECH USA Soft Photo/Electronics Wide Body Pouch, Medium (Black).
Bought it from B&H, NYC.
It is just the right size for the 8x25 when closed. The strap can fit inside if you fold it above the rainguard but I prefer to leave it outside. There is also a belt clip (see pictures).

I’m only doubting about the level of protection of just a layer of neoprene, as it would to ‘carry everywhere’.

I've carried a lot of expensive photo gear over the years in neoprene bags without problem and they are less rugged than binoculars.
But I guess it depends on how you use and carry them.

 

[[email protected]]

Do you mean you put the Zeiss open/unfolded in the bag you show in your picture?
I am looking for a bag for my Zeiss Victory 8x25 with apparently the same rainguard and ocular caps as you. All bags I’ve tested in a store were either too small, or that big that it would make them pointless as a replacement for the original (only a little less wide,but mich thicker). Ideally, it would be a bag that is somewhat a hard case (as the original from Zeiss) but fitting snugly when the binoculars are folded with the rainguard and ocular caps on. But I guess it is wishful thinking to find such a case...
Could you tell me which model of bag it is that you use, as shown on your picture? It seems really nice. (I’m only doubting about the level of protection of just a layer of neoprene, as it would to ‘carry everywhere’.)
How well does it fit and does the Zeiss fit inside with or without the strap?

When I had a Zeiss 8x25 I used a Lowepro Dashpoint 20 and it fit pretty good with the strap and the binocular folded and it is a little more protective than the neoprene cases. There is also a Dashpoint 30 if you want a little more width. The Dashpoint cases work well for most of the compacts, and they come in three different sizes.

https://www.amazon.com/Lowepro-Dash...words=dashpoint+20&qid=1602857170&sr=8-1&th=1

 

[pm42]

When I had a Zeiss 8x25 I used a Lowepro Dashpoint 20 and it fit pretty good with the strap and the binocular folded and it is a little more protective than the neoprene cases.

Indeed. I have one too and it is great but bigger.
I'm now using it for the Nikon 8x25 IS as the original pouch offers very little protection.

 

[LucaPCP]

No. I was not clear. Sorry.


OP/TECH USA Soft Photo/Electronics Wide Body Pouch, Medium (Black).
Bought it from B&H, NYC.
It is just the right size for the 8x25 when closed. The strap can fit inside if you fold it above the rainguard but I prefer to leave it outside. There is also a belt clip (see pictures).



I've carried a lot of expensive photo gear over the years in neoprene bags without problem and they are less rugged than binoculars.
But I guess it depends on how you use and carry them.

Once, a neoprene bag that was too tight caused the diopter ring of my Zeiss Terra 8x25 to become detached. It’s similar to the Zeiss Pocket diopter, and it’s not very well affixed. The Leica 8x20 is actually better built.

 

[binomaniac]

I decided that if I found a Zeiss Victory 8x25 or Leica UV 8x20 at a good price, I would buy it immediately. I just missed a Zeiss at an excellent price, only 400 euros buy it now. The seller from Germany did not specify whether or not to send to Romania, and until he answered my message, the binoculars were sold, as expected at this price, I think he only stayed on Ebay for 30 minutes. Bad luck , a few seconds faster and I was doing a great deal.

 

[mbb]

No. I was not clear. Sorry.


OP/TECH USA Soft Photo/Electronics Wide Body Pouch, Medium (Black).
Bought it from B&H, NYC.
It is just the right size for the 8x25 when closed. The strap can fit inside if you fold it above the rainguard but I prefer to leave it outside. There is also a belt clip (see pictures).



I've carried a lot of expensive photo gear over the years in neoprene bags without problem and they are less rugged than binoculars.
But I guess it depends on how you use and carry them.

Thank you a lot for the info!
I would really love to try/buy this neoprene pouch, but I cannot find any place or webshop that sells it in Europe (or at with the possibility to have it shipped to Belgium, except for one or so with a shipping cost of some 40-50USD, which would be absurd for just a small bag/pouch). Apparently, it is also out of production, but some stock remains in some US (web)shops.
My search continues...
Maybe I'll try to make one myself...