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Recommendations for mid-level (US$400-600) 8x42s? (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter Oregon John
- Start date
Redneckbmxer24
Well-known member
You can get sub $600 binos that aren't chinesium, Leupold BX4's are one of them and are very very nice for the $$ and made in Japan. I own them as well as swaros. There's also a lot of options in the used market.
I've used a lot of chinese binos and to me spending more than Vortex Diamondback HD money on chinesium is pretty dumb.
Paultricounty
Well-known member
Vortex vipers and razors are made in the Philippines, UHD MIJ. Anything below Viper is China.
That is interesting. The UHD's are MIJ? Huh. Figures. I don't people would pay $2K for a UHD if it was MIC. MIP is better than MIC.
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Paultricounty
Well-known member
Anything is better than MIC.
What is ironic (perhaps) is that 99.9% of the posts on this and most all forums are typed and sent on PC's, tablets and phones made in the Far East and predominately China. Of course only between shifts in the rice fields and opium dens!
For what it is worth my wife has, horror amongst horrors, an electric MG SUV made in China. Not a single problem but my Land Rover Defender ( the new one made in Slovakia) was in the dealership so many times that it had an invite to the Staff Xmas party. Gone, forgotten and a new Grenadier is on its way.
Redneckbmxer24
Well-known member
Older vipers and razors are Japanese and great optics. I wouldn't touch the phillipino stuff, just better out there for the price range. I see Japanese razor and vipers for $300-$400 used pretty regularly though and thats a good buy.
Redneckbmxer24
Well-known member
China has practically zero manufacturing standards. They pump out the cheapest stuff they can with the cheapest materials they can. It's not good quality.
Redneckbmxer24
Well-known member
That's a common way that people defend junk chinesium optics. With electrionics like phones and computers most of them are made their so you really don't have a choice but to be buying chinese made products. The quality of those are also much better than the optics that come out of china. With optics you have a lot of choices for where they're made. Furthermore most of those electronic companies own the manufacturing where the products are produced whereas with optics they are OEM'd so those manufactures have 100% control over what their facility is producing. So hardly a good comparison.
Binocollector
Well-known member
@Redneckbmxer24
My thinking exactly.
The argument, "but XYZ comes from China, too" is the same argument as: "but your smartphone has batteries, so you must like IS-binos" -- the reaction I often read when not agreeing is, "what? You don't like IS-binos? You must be living in a cave then and not use modern technology at all".
The overabundance of products from China (often with batteries) are the EXACT reason, why I try to avoid them in areas where they can be avoided. Especially if that is possible without spending 3x the money I wanted to spend.
And quality (or lack thereof) is only part of the reason.
Regarding KUO products -- I have 2 Oberwerk "Mariner" binos, one in 8x42 and the 10x60. The first one was okay, apart from the horrible eye cups that are way too large and have no click stops. The 10x60 has dust basically sprinkling the whole inside of the right ocular.
Reaction of Oberwerk (not the US but the EU-store) was less than great. (In the end they basically accused me of having opened the bino!)
No more "Obies" for me, that is for sure. Also -- no more MiC-plastic Nikons after my experience with that crappy P7.
My thinking exactly.
The argument, "but XYZ comes from China, too" is the same argument as: "but your smartphone has batteries, so you must like IS-binos" -- the reaction I often read when not agreeing is, "what? You don't like IS-binos? You must be living in a cave then and not use modern technology at all".
The overabundance of products from China (often with batteries) are the EXACT reason, why I try to avoid them in areas where they can be avoided. Especially if that is possible without spending 3x the money I wanted to spend.
And quality (or lack thereof) is only part of the reason.
Regarding KUO products -- I have 2 Oberwerk "Mariner" binos, one in 8x42 and the 10x60. The first one was okay, apart from the horrible eye cups that are way too large and have no click stops. The 10x60 has dust basically sprinkling the whole inside of the right ocular.
Reaction of Oberwerk (not the US but the EU-store) was less than great. (In the end they basically accused me of having opened the bino!)
No more "Obies" for me, that is for sure. Also -- no more MiC-plastic Nikons after my experience with that crappy P7.
Paultricounty
Well-known member
Some people just don’t get it. China does make a lot of cheap crap, they also make good quality goods. A lot of the optics coming out of China is pretty good stuff for the money , otherwise Nikon, Vortex, Zeiss and a dozen others wouldn’t be having them made there.
What people don’t get is China is a communist country that the west has helped build into a giant monster , that is now a major problem for the world. For the people who don’t see this and continue to do business as usual , are mindless and clueless. A lot of German people were very happy in the mid to late 1930‘s in Germanys economy. Different politics but same human nature.
There are alternatives to buying MIC almost everywhere, if you take the time , read labels , do a tiny bit of research and you’d be surprised how many product’s are available from different sources. Although much of the raw materials , metals , plastics etc. etc. are MIC , everybody can still have an effect if they purchased products made in other countries.
Vortex Vipers are certainly an option as well as a few others. Even buying used China is better. In the $400-$600 range there is amazing glass available used, in great shape. Denco Den a member here just sold a Meopta B1 for under $600, that’s great glass from what I understand. That’s over $1000 glass at over half the price.
This may help a little.
Which Binoculars Are Not Made In China? - Outdoor Lifestyle Expert
Although China is also responsible for some of the top quality optics used by the best precision optical equipment companies with famous brand names, sadly some of the not-so-good binoculars available worldwide are also made in China. Why Do Top Companies Use Chinese Components? Most of the...
www.outdoorlifestyleexpert.com
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Paultricounty
Well-known member
Truthfully the Philippines vortex is some good stuff. I previously had the opportunity to test out a multitude of Philippines made, China and an older MIJ versions. And couldn’t say which was better. Made in Philippines is 100 times better than MIC. I was looking at some electric guitars made in the Philippines a few weeks ago, I got a gift certificate for Christmas for guitar center and I was absolutely blown away by the quality for the price point.
Paul
rdnzl
Not Sure.
These are not true statements.
Redneckbmxer24
Well-known member
Ohh yeah? Then prove me wrong.
I’m chief procurement officer of a large hardware company of Asian goods. I know first hand of Chinas manufacturing standard or lack there of. But please, enlighten me.
China will make and sell you what you ask for.
If you, as 'chief procurement officer' have asked for low quality goods for a cheap price, then I am fairly certain that the Chinese companies you are dealing with will oblige your request.
In my experience, China has the capability to delivery high quality (aerospace/other high precision goods) if they are required.
Edit - I am now interested in your experiences.... please share ....
Why did you go to China to buy, instead of sourcing hardware locally, if you are not happy with the quality of Chinese goods?
What engineering standards did you specify and what tolerances and materials did you use on your engineering drawings?
Did the company not meet your detail specifications or did you not specify what you required in enough detail (if they used cheapest materials)?
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Try an opticron Verano..... an often overlooked binocular brand but this price range, it fits nicely into the quality that takes them to the top. Probably more popular in UK and Europe than in the states but still a great bin. I have a 8x32 Verano and am pleased with it all around. Light, feels like quality....good price. And good support too I might add with Pete G floating around the boards here.... jim
I had the same dilemma a year ago and went with GPO Passion ED 8x42. I've been very happy with the purchase. The view is sharp, bright, wide and comfortable. I've since tested better binos but they were Swarovskis and 3x the price.
GPO has quality management done internally in Germany. It's the quality management that often fails in China. About GPO – German Precision Optics
I cannot really tell anything wrong with the build quality, especially looking at the price. They are built well and the focusing system feels really good. In specs and optics they seem to compete with binoculars at 600-900 $ range. It's probably the Chinese part that allows them to be sold at much lower price point.
GPO has quality management done internally in Germany. It's the quality management that often fails in China. About GPO – German Precision Optics
I cannot really tell anything wrong with the build quality, especially looking at the price. They are built well and the focusing system feels really good. In specs and optics they seem to compete with binoculars at 600-900 $ range. It's probably the Chinese part that allows them to be sold at much lower price point.
