Eponymical challenges (1 Viewer)

[Björn Bergenholtz]

Paul, I'm still curious, I would still like to know the source of your claim, that "Professor Chu Hsi-tsu (Zhu Xizu, 朱希祖) (1879-1944)" was the Former Director (that is, as in him being "former", in 1933) of the "Sun-Yatsen Universität", in Canton (today's Guangzhou), China.

I've tried, really tried, but failed, to find any such information.

Please enlighten me.

Björn

 

[PScofield]

Björn, I like you am reliant on Google translate to translate Chinese pages - these translations are apparently inconsistent and when I return to a web page I find those nuances of the wording change. All biographies concur that Zhu Xizu 朱希祖 was a professor at 中山大學. I can no longer find the suggestion that he was a former director. I am afraid that the only way to solve this issue would be to get staff lists for 中山大學 from the period 1925-1933. These no doubt exist but translating these is well beyond me.

Cheers Paul

 

[Taphrospilus]

Must be somehow here 詞條名稱：朱希祖(1879-1944)

21年，南下擔任廣州中山大學教授，兼文史研究所主任及廣東通志館纂修。在粵訪求明季史蹟及兩廣方志

 

[Björn Bergenholtz]

Martin, note that "21年，南下擔任廣州中山大學教授，兼文史研究所主任及廣東通志館纂修。在粵訪求明季史蹟及兩廣方志" ... doesn't say that he served as a professor at Sun Yat-sen University in Guangzhou for 21 years (which is easy to believe, after reading it in Google translate).

The "21" part seems to mean in year 21 (of the Guangxu in Qing Dynasty, which started in the mid-1870's) ... ?!?

I would be careful relying on any number from that certain page (from 1995). Also note the claim of his years/Life: "1879-1944" versus "33年7月5日，病逝重慶。享年66歲" (Google Translate: "On July 5, 33, he died in Chongqing. He was 66 years old.)"

Though, also note that the latter year "33", most likely, is/was just a simple typo, as other pages do claim that he died: "In July 1944, he died of emphysema in Chongqing".

Either way, it's an awfully tricky case.

/B

PS. As always; using Google translate back-and-forth, on various pages of/in languages one couldn't understand (in any way, not even in the tiniest way), and then trying to make sense of it all, isn't the most desired way to find reliable facts, quite often the opposite, it's an excellent way to be led astray (or simply lost), believe me, I've done it numerous times, ending up in nothing but piles of useless notes (in the waste-basket), but occationally it could/might be worth using, at times one find the odd missing piece (in need for verification/confirmation elsewhere)

 

[Björn Bergenholtz]

Re. "Tribura tacsanowskia chui" YEN 1933 (and "Cinclus pallasii sini" YEN 1933)

Björn, I like you am reliant on Google translate to translate Chinese pages - these translations are apparently inconsistent and when I return to a web page I find those nuances of the wording change. All biographies concur that Zhu Xizu 朱希祖 was a professor at 中山大學. I can no longer find the suggestion that he was a former director. I am afraid that the only way to solve this issue would be to get staff lists for 中山大學 from the period 1925-1933. These no doubt exist but translating these is well beyond me.

Cheers Paul

Thanks Paul, for a prompt reply! Even if it didn't include the eagerly awaited conclusion, an indisputable proof, and a final end to this tricky (and somewhat tedious) case. It would have been welcomed ...

In any case, I still have some doubts about the dedicatee of chui, and the suggested Professor "Chu Hsi-tsu (Zhu Xizu, 朱希祖) (1879-1944)", simply as he seems to have been a celebrated Chinese Historian, with little connection (as far as I can tell, or none) to Natural History, and that he, as well, doesn't seem to have been connected to the Sun-Yatsen University for very long.

Note that the Type of "Tribura tacsanowskia chui" YEN 1933 was collected in 1931 (to be exact; on the 24th of June, in 1931), and that the dedication clearly was aimed at a "Prof. CHU, vormaligen Direktor der Sun-Yatsen Universität, der unseren Expeditionen alle erforderlichen Unterstützungen erteilt hat und noch erteilt." [(Google translate): "...who has given our expeditions all necessary support and is still doing so"].

In comparison to what's told on this certain Chinese factpedia-page (see the non-direct link below; copy/paste, and ditto, into the same Google translate):
https://factpedia.org/index.php?title=朱希祖&variant=zh

• 1928 he [i.e. Zhu Xizu, (1879-1944)] returned to the Peking University, served as the head of the Department of History, and initiated the establishment of the Chinese History Society.
• In 1930 he joined the Academia Sinica as a researcher.
• In 1932, he served as a professor and director of the Institute of Literature and History at Sun Yat-sen University in Guangzhou. ...
• 1934, he was appointed as the head of the History Department of Nanjing Central University, and in the same year as the head of the Antiquities Preservation Committee.

[... also again repeated ...]

• In 1930, he became a researcher of Academia Sinica. ...
• In 1932, Zou Ludian, president of National Sun Yat-sen University, appointed Zhu Xizu as the director of the Institute of Literature and History.
• In the spring of 1934, he was appointed as the head of the History Department of Central University and a member of the Antiquities Committee.

This far I suspect that there ought to have been, or at least, could have been (yet) another Professor Chu hidden in the same University ...

However, I'll try to figure out another way to find out who the dedicatee was.

Take all of the above, for whatever it's worth, if anything at all, as random line of thoughts, from an all-Non-Chinese Swede, simply trying to make sense of it all, just trying to fit the odd bits and pieces of the puzzle together.

We'll see if I can find anything additional (if time allows). If so, I'll return. If not; I'm done (on this one).

Keep digging!

Björn

PS. Also, maybe noteworthy is the short phrase: "清道光状元朱昌颐族孙", (apparently) telling us that he was "The grandson of Zhu Changyi, the top scholar in Daoguang of the Qing Dynasty.", which (again) indicate that the Family/Surname of this guy was Zhu (alt. Chu). And as such, regardless if he's commemorated or not, that the name of this "Chu Hsi-tsu (Zhu Xizu, 朱希祖) ought to be written (in the Western way, of order of names, surname last) in the opposite way, as either; Hsi-tsu Chu, or Xizu Zhu.

PPS. Also compare it with the link in Martins post #43, that popped up (and required a reply) in the midst of writing this one.

 

[PScofield]

Slight edit on Gertrud see death certificate (1951) now obtained.

 

[Taphrospilus]

What is the difference to #30?

 

[Björn Bergenholtz]

Slight edit on Gertrud see death certificate (1951) now obtained.

What is the difference to #30?

It's exactly the same Death record (of Hermann G r o t e), as in post #30, from November last year ("Nr. 2547"), and as far as I can tell it doesn't give us reason to "edit" anything of what we've found out, this far, about his wife Gertrud ...

I guess we have to wait for the correct attachment, "now obtained" ... Paul?

/B

 

[PScofield]

Apologies for previous post. The date of death on a family tree 1955 was for a namesake. With help from Julia Bärnighausen a PhD student from Berlin she has found that the birth certificate of Gertrud-Luise Grote has a little stamp on the lower right that identifies her date of death as August 9, 1981. Apparently, she died in Hamburg-Altona. She double-checked in Hamburg’s death register and it is correct:

https://www.hamburg.de/contentblob/4437698/0860c6f6a9f674d3b8fac8db98b3889a/data/332-5-49507.pdf

(see page 182).

P

 

[Taphrospilus]

I think it is relativly clear as introduction states here:



Who ever S. S. Sin was Cinclus pallasii sini was dedicated to him. According The Eponym Dictionary of Birds he was a botanist b. 1891.

But see here:

Just want to add (nothing new):

The Eponym Dictionary of Birds claims:

Sin White-necklaced Partridge ssp. Arborophila ricketti sini Delacour, 1930 NCR [JS Arborophila gingica]
S. S. Sin (b.1891) was a botanist who was Professor and Head of the Biology Department, Sun Yatsen University, Canton (China).

The Key to Scientific Names

Prof. S. S. Sin (b. 1891-fl. 1975) Chinese botanist, collector (syn. Arborophila gingica, subsp. Minla ignotincta, subsp. Psilopogon faber, subsp. Trochalopteron milnei).

But still think Shu Zhi Xin (1894–1977) as discussed.

• Minla ignotincta sini Stresemann, 1929 OD here (not seen)
• Psilopogon faber sini (Stresemann, 1929) OD same as above
• Trochalopteron milnei sinianum Stresemann, 1930 OD here
• Arborophila ricketti sini Delacour, 1930 OD J. Delacour : Note sur la collection de l'Université Sun - Yatsen à Canton , et description d'oiseaux nouveaux, L'Oiseau et la Revue française d'Ornithologie Vol . XI , n ° 6 , Juin 1930 (not seen)

 

[l_raty]

S. S. Sin apparently stands for Shu-Szi Sin, which is a romanization of 辛树帜 = (pinyin) Xīn Shùzhì.

Chinese Wikipedia: https://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/辛树帜
Baidu Baike: https://baike.baidu.com/item/辛树帜

Also apparently named after him are:
The lizard genus Shinisaurus -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_crocodile_lizard
The frog Quasipaa shini -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quasipaa_shini

 

[l_raty]

• Minla ignotincta sini Stresemann, 1929 OD here (not seen)
• Psilopogon faber sini (Stresemann, 1929) OD same as above

The OD is, actually, this. There is no dedication associated to the names themselves, but the introducing text includes:

Im Jahre 1928 ist von seiten des Zoologischen Instituts der Sun-Yat-Sen-Universität in Kanton unter Führung seines Direktors, Prof. S. S. SIN, eine Expedition unternommen worden, welche die Aufgabe hatte, ein im Norden der Provinz Kwangsi bis zu einer Höhe von etwa 4500 Fuß aufragendes Waldgebirge, den Yao-schan, in faunistischer Hinsicht zu untersuchen. Die Ausbeute dieses Unternehmens ist sehr reich gewesen: neben ansehnlichen Sammlungen aus anderen Tiergruppen wurden einige Hundert Vogelbälge nach Kanton gebracht. Hiervon sandte Herr Prof. SIN dem Berichterstatter eine kleine Auswahl, vor allem jene Arten enthaltend, deren einwandfreie Bestimmung an Hand der Literatur nicht möglich war, und von dieser Sendung soll im folgenden die Rede sein.

• Arborophila ricketti sini Delacour, 1930 OD J. Delacour : Note sur la collection de l'Université Sun - Yatsen à Canton , et description d'oiseaux nouveaux, L'Oiseau et la Revue française d'Ornithologie Vol . XI , n ° 6 , Juin 1930 (not seen)

...here :

Nommé en l'honneur du professeur S. S. Sin, de l'Université Sun-Yatsen, à Canton.