• Welcome to BirdForum, the internet's largest birding community with thousands of members from all over the world. The forums are dedicated to wild birds, birding, binoculars and equipment and all that goes with it.

    Please register for an account to take part in the discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.
ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

Birdwatchers' world record bid (BBC News) (1 Viewer)

...and hope to become very jealous and inspired by their travelling!

I'm sure we all will ;) I have warned Neil that I may up sticks and leave him for a year or so (with the freezer full so he doesn't starve! ;)) to go birding :-O

Sorry Gill and Vectis Birder I was just feeling a bit raw about events in my own life

That's ok mate o:D I wasn't offended - we're all different and want different things - just hope my posts didn't come across as being all moralistic and snotty |:$| All friends again? (((HUGS))) B :)
 
For what's it worth, after everything I'd said about the Biggest Twitchers, I thought I should ask them directly about the carbon emissions of their trip, because for all I knew they could have very carefully totted it up and half their money could have been going on carbon offset schemes. So, time to give them a fair shake, as it were.

Now I was very sincere and civil, and certainly wasn't at all j'accuse about it, and... well, this is how they replied, "Dont worry as you may have seen from our website we have both worked in conservation and are very well aware of carbon issues thank you, you dont make a career out of conservation then spend your time undoing all the good acheived! What are you doing to help the planet?"

Frankly, it took some restraint to answer that for starters I wasn't flying around the world all year long. ;)
They haven't since responded to my true and again polite reply, but I suppose it's been a busy week.

End of story, for me.
 
... well, this is how they replied, "Dont worry as you may have seen from our website we have both worked in conservation and are very well aware of carbon issues thank you, you dont make a career out of conservation then spend your time undoing all the good acheived! What are you doing to help the planet?"

A fair reply, I think.
 
So what are you doing to help the planet? ;)

Even I have the class not to list what I do do unless you're really desperate to know, suffice to say I hope it's enough. However I did give Alan and Ruth the full rundown and I really wish I'd seen their faces when they read it. The shame is theirs for issuing such a flippantly offensive and self-righteous reply to a very reasonable conservation-based question.
 
Even I have the class not to list what I do do unless you're really desperate to know, .


Well.. you're trying desperately hard to get the information out of the Big Twitchers! If this is so dear to your heart, I'd have thought you'd jump at an opportunity to educate others to be like you, and improve their way of living by following your initiatives.


Class should be the least of your worries, with a cause as worthy as yours.

Cheers,
Peter
 
For what's it worth, after everything I'd said about the Biggest Twitchers, I thought I should ask them directly about the carbon emissions of their trip, because for all I knew they could have very carefully totted it up and half their money could have been going on carbon offset schemes. So, time to give them a fair shake, as it were.

Now I was very sincere and civil, and certainly wasn't at all j'accuse about it, and... well, this is how they replied, "Dont worry as you may have seen from our website we have both worked in conservation and are very well aware of carbon issues thank you, you dont make a career out of conservation then spend your time undoing all the good acheived! What are you doing to help the planet?"

Frankly, it took some restraint to answer that for starters I wasn't flying around the world all year long. ;)
They haven't since responded to my true and again polite reply, but I suppose it's been a busy week.

End of story, for me.

You should ask them if the RSPB, their former employer, is supporting them. Because they are uncharacteristically quiet on this one.
 
If you want the straight answer.. then you should maybe ask the RSPB?

Or maybe you should boycott this website, for their Easyjet adverts on every page!
 
Last edited:
What a boring bunch of carbonite killjoys have crawled out the woodwork on this thread - do they really have such a dull life that they will begrudge others who have the balls to go out and do something actually pretty exciting.

Well, my hat is off to these two birders, hope they have a right good time, a fantastic thing to do.


Eco-tourism is an excuse for foreign holidays, and just isn't going to contribute anywhere near enough to preserve enormous habitats like rainforests.

This is simply not true - there are vast portions of the globe now surviving only due to their value in bringing in the tourist dollar, pound and euro. Across Africa and elsewhere, conservation is not a luxury most nations can afford as a simple duty, it survives as a source of income. Many African countries have significant portions of their land protected in reserves, the reserves only safe as they generate such significant revenues from tourists fying in. Not only state national parks, but the multitude of private reserves being created - being created, not merely protected. Go to southern Africa and see how many former ranchlands have been converted into gameparks, restocked and protected at immence cost - this would not happen without tourism. There are entire species whose very existance is tied to reserve.

PS. So far this year I have already flown many thousands of kilometres, should I feel guilty, well if I listened to the rants of the carbonies, maybe. But if the world actually listened to them in their entirety, we would not only be bored out of our brains, but the world would be a far worse place, biodiversity lost and habitats destroyed. On my latest trip of sin, I visited Uganda - I think 16 % of its land is in reserve and more under community schemes to promote ecotourism. Bwindi, home to 350 of the world's Highland Gorillas owes its future security to tourism ...that's more than 35% of the world population and all of the others are also in areas protected and supported by tourism, the only ones seriously thought to be at risk are in the national parks in Congo where conflict is limiting tourism. Even outside reserves and beyond community schemes, there are many examples where locals see the value of wildlife and limit activities to disturb/destroy the wildlife and instead seek to protect it.

In short, the world is still a very good place, it is an amazing place ...no problem if you don't want to travel and see it, but give it a passing thought when taking a single blinkered vision of environmental issues. I for one don't want to live in a low carbon world, if that means it is also a monoculture of nothingness.
 
Last edited:
So what's the greater sin, getting on the first of these or letting the second disappear as a result of not?
 

Attachments

  • sunny place.jpg
    sunny place.jpg
    63.1 KB · Views: 81
  • Silverback bwindi 1.jpg
    Silverback bwindi 1.jpg
    107.8 KB · Views: 89
Amen to that! Well said, Jos.


What a boring bunch of carbonite killjoys have crawled out the woodwork on this thread - do they really have such a dull life that they will begrudge others who have the balls to go out and do something actually pretty exciting.

Well, my hat is off to these two birders, hope they have a right good time, a fantastic thing to do.




This is simply not true - there are vast portions of the globe now surviving only due to their value in bringing in the tourist dollar, pound and euro. Across Africa and elsewhere, conservation is not a luxury most nations can afford as a simple duty, it survives as a source of income. Many African countries have significant portions of their land protected in reserves, the reserves only safe as they generate such significant revenues from tourists fying in. Not only state national parks, but the multitude of private reserves being created - being created, not merely protected. Go to southern Africa and see how many former ranchlands have been converted into gameparks, restocked and protected at immence cost - this would not happen without tourism. There are entire species whose very existance is tied to reserve.

PS. So far this year I have already flown many thousands of kilometres, should I feel guilty, well if I listened to the rants of the carbonies, maybe. But if the world actually listened to them in their entirety, we would not only be bored out of our brains, but the world would be a far worse place, biodiversity lost and habitats destroyed. On my latest trip of sin, I visited Uganda - I think 16 % of its land is in reserve and more under community schemes to promote ecotourism. Bwindi, home to 350 of the world's Highland Gorillas owes its future security to tourism ...that's more than 35% of the world population and all of the others are also in areas protected and supported by tourism, the only ones seriously thought to be at risk are in the national parks in Congo where conflict is limiting tourism. Even outside reserves and beyond community schemes, there are many examples where locals see the value of wildlife and limit activities to disturb/destroy the wildlife and instead seek to protect it.

In short, the world is still a very good place, it is an amazing place ...no problem if you don't want to travel and see it, but give it a passing thought when taking a single blinkered vision of environmental issues. I for one don't want to live in a low carbon world, if that means it is also a monoculture of nothingness.
 
So what's the greater sin, getting on the first of these or letting the second disappear as a result of not?
So you are saying flying on a plane will save them and staying at home but also donating to wildlife charities wont? Did you happen upon Clarkson and co whilst travelling;)
 
He's saying that ecotourism is what keeps them protected.
Speaking personally I am far more willing to donate to protect somewhere/something I have seen.

Rob
 
So you are saying flying on a plane will save them and staying at home but also donating to wildlife charities wont?

Donating to wildlife charities is all well and good, but going there additionally provides income and jobs for local persons in the immediate area - instead of them relying on the forest to try and make a living, cutting wood, converting it to maize, turning it into charcoal, etc, they instead see possibilities to offer accommodation at all levels from backbacker upwards, guiding, local cafes, etc. In most countries, a portion of income from tourism is also given to the local community (in Uganda it is 20% of permit fees) - call this a bribe, call it it an incentive to protect, no difference, it works - communities want to protect the natural resources. Local communities need to see direct benefit in order to become involved in the solution, not the problem. Going there provides income at all levels. And it is not small isolated pockets of land we are talking about, it is vast amalgamated plots, running up against each other and to adjacent national parks.

Additionally, if we move further south, vast tracks of the Zambezi Valley, the hinterlands of Krugar, etc, are (as I said before) being protected not by government or charity, but by landowners seeking to make a profit out of conservation. Are you going to donate (to private companies that are in it for profit) the many thousands needed to continue the work? I doubt it, better let them charge their wealthy clients several hundred dollars a day for the pleasure of visiting. I don't think the ecosystems and associated animals worry too much that it is capitalism that is maintaining them, neither do I.

Plus, maybe you are more generous than most, but persons travelling to these areas tend to pay much greater amounts than those simply donating.
 
Last edited:
Donating to wildlife charities is all well and good, but going there additionally provides income and jobs for local persons in the immediate area - instead of them relying on the forest to try and make a living, cutting wood, converting it to maize, turning it into charcoal, etc, they instead see possibilities to offer accommodation at all levels from backbacker upwards, guiding, local cafes, etc. In most countries, a portion of income from tourism is also given to the local community (in Uganda it is 20% of permit fees) - call this a bribe, call it it an incentive to protect, no difference, it works - communities want to protect the natural resources. Local communities need to see direct benefit in order to become involved in the solution, not the problem. Going there provides income at all levels. And it is not small isolated pockets of land we are talking about, it is vast amalgamated plots, running up against each other and to adjacent national parks.

Additionally, if we move further south, vast tracks of the Zambezi Valley, the hinterlands of Krugar, etc, are (as I said before) being protected not by government or charity, but by landowners seeking to make a profit out of conservation. Are you going to donate (to private companies that are in it for profit) the many thousands needed to continue the work? I doubt it, better let them charge their wealthy clients several hundred dollars a day for the pleasure of visiting. I don't think the ecosystems and associated animals worry too much that it is capitalism that is maintaining them, neither do I.

Plus, maybe you are more generous than most, but persons travelling to these areas tend to pay much greater amounts than those simply donating.
Fair points . Obviously these people travelling there will pay more- they are getting all that spectacular wildlife and scenery for their cash. I think if local people were given a fair crack of the whip by their own leaders and western governments they would have no need to hunt and kill endangered wildlife in the first place
 
Warning! This thread is more than 16 years ago old.
It's likely that no further discussion is required, in which case we recommend starting a new thread. If however you feel your response is required you can still do so.

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top