Self-sustaining Common Crane population in the UK (2 Viewers)

[JTweedie]

There are more than 80 pairs of Common Crane in the UK as of 2023, forming a self-sustaining population. In 2023, 69 pairs attempted breeding and fledged 36 chicks. Looking at the trend described in the article, they've been increasing by 20 pairs every three years since 2014.

No doubt the population is dependent on suitable habitat and lack of disturbance, but it's a good news story and I hope we see a day where they're much more easily seen by many more people.

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[Phil Andrews]

Surely Cranes have been self-sustaining in Britain for several decades with the Norfolk flock slowly dispersing?

 

[JTweedie]

From the article it seems that intervention was needed to give them a helping hand as they had only increased to five pairs between 1979 and 2000.

 

[Farnboro John]

From the article it seems that intervention was needed to give them a helping hand as they had only increased to five pairs between 1979 and 2000.

If you read the whole article carefully you can see that the initially small East Anglia population (wild) increased slowly until hitting what seems to have been a critical level some time between 2000 and 2010 after which it exploded into all the available habitat and began to spread beyond East Anglia. From this it is absolutely apparent that the Great Crane Project was too late to be needed and all it has done is draw funds into another vanity project. Which frankly we knew anyway....

I'm not a fan of the English Osprey and White-tailed Eagle introductions but its absolutely thumbs down on the Crane one. The East Anglia Cranes would have hit the South-west wetlands fairly quickly anyway.

John

 

[Phil Andrews]

Fully agree FJ

 

[JTweedie]

So you suspect that the population was already increasing irrespective of the extra funding? I mean I can see that on the chart in the article there was an expansion to around 20 pairs between 2000 and 2010 before the Great Crane Project was established.

 

[Farnboro John]

So you suspect that the population was already increasing irrespective of the extra funding? I mean I can see that on the chart in the article there was an expansion to around 20 pairs between 2000 and 2010 before the Great Crane Project was established.

Yes, absolutely. With very small numbers it crawled slowly up but 5 to 20 was a big increase in that ten years and since then they've been properly on the march, with wintering flocks of 60+ in the Horsey area of Norfolk and even I've seen 45 at Eldernell in Cambridgeshire.

Some of that may be due to wetland restoration and the new recognition that landscape scale conservation is effective but the reintroduction project was always nonsense.

John

 

[DMW]

If you read the whole article carefully you can see that the initially small East Anglia population (wild) increased slowly until hitting what seems to have been a critical level some time between 2000 and 2010 after which it exploded into all the available habitat and began to spread beyond East Anglia. From this it is absolutely apparent that the Great Crane Project was too late to be needed and all it has done is draw funds into another vanity project. Which frankly we knew anyway....

I'm not a fan of the English Osprey and White-tailed Eagle introductions but its absolutely thumbs down on the Crane one. The East Anglia Cranes would have hit the South-west wetlands fairly quickly anyway.

John

I was under the impression that the "reintroduction project" was basically the hobby horse of a single very wealthy individual who wasn't very "receptive to advice".

 

[david kelly]

If you read the whole article carefully you can see that the initially small East Anglia population (wild) increased slowly until hitting what seems to have been a critical level some time between 2000 and 2010 after which it exploded into all the available habitat and began to spread beyond East Anglia. From this it is absolutely apparent that the Great Crane Project was too late to be needed and all it has done is draw funds into another vanity project. Which frankly we knew anyway....

I'm not a fan of the English Osprey and White-tailed Eagle introductions but its absolutely thumbs down on the Crane one. The East Anglia Cranes would have hit the South-west wetlands fairly quickly anyway.

John

The Scottish population is thought to be a separate colonisation. They are probably an outlier of the Norwegian population rather than originating from England.

David

 

[Jos Stratford]

From this it is absolutely apparent that the Great Crane Project was too late to be needed and all it has done is draw funds into another vanity project. Which frankly we knew anyway...

Personally, I think it's fantastic that there are now Cranes in growing numbers, Red Kites two a penny across much of England and indeed that White-tailed Eagles are being given an additional helping hand. Sure, we can say they may have all recolonised these areas naturally at some hazy point in the future, but these are still success stories, the birds are there now, not maybe in the future.

As for drawing funds away from more needed conservation causes, I don't buy it. This almost certainly, in my opinion, just draws money into these projects that would not have otherwise been used in conservation. It's not an either or, it's this and this.

 

[Farnboro John]

Personally, I think it's fantastic that there are now Cranes in growing numbers, Red Kites two a penny across much of England and indeed that White-tailed Eagles are being given an additional helping hand. Sure, we can say they may have all recolonised these areas naturally at some point hazy point in the future, but these are still success stories, the birds are there now, not maybe in the future.

As for drawing funds away from more needed conservation causes, I don't buy it. This almost certainly, in my opinion, just draws money into these projects that would not have otherwise been used in conservation. It's not an either or, it's this and this.

Well, you may be right about the money - though considering the amount of damage the water companies do, the one involved with the Ospreys at least should be doing its best for rivers - up with White-clawed Crayfish and down with Signals and Mink, for instance - not arsing about with birds that are on the way anyway. I agree about the Red Kites, they have come back amazingly with the help they were given (though there are still areas where BOP persecution in general is so heavy even kites get hammered). The point about the Cranes is simply that they were growing increasingly fast anyway. There are additional aesthetic points about the bling all over the project birds and that some birders actually prefer to see "genuine" ones but those are minor and transitory I suspect.

I still think the IOW eagle project is full of wrongness and that includes the possibility that WTE in the South of England will destroy the tourist funding for the Highland and Island economy that is used to ward off dinosaurial sheep farmers and fishermen from attacking them. IMHO that is more than enough reason for not doing it.

All this at a time when the Westminster government is still resisting proper Beaver introduction to England (by pivoting away from reintroductions in general) when the ecological advantages are well known and not only that but they seem to be in denial about their land borders with Scotland and Wales who are both behind the project. They can't even stop boats across the Channel - how are they going to fortify Offa's Dyke and Hadrian's Wall against Beavers?

John

 

[Farnboro John]

The Scottish population is thought to be a separate colonisation. They are probably an outlier of the Norwegian population rather than originating from England.

David

I have no evidence to contradict that but is there any in favour of it, such as regular Crane migration events across Scotland rather than further South? Do the Scottish ones disappear over the winter and return at typical Crane migration times for instance?

Goodness knows they drift across Southern England rarely enough considering they move not far across the Channel.

John

 

[Jos Stratford]

All this at a time when the Westminster government is still resisting proper Beaver introduction to England (by pivoting away from reintroductions in general) when the ecological advantages are well known

Feel free to come and get my Beavers, I have plenty and actually would prefer none 🙂

 

[Andrew Whitehouse]

I have no evidence to contradict that but is there any in favour of it, such as regular Crane migration events across Scotland rather than further South? Do the Scottish ones disappear over the winter and return at typical Crane migration times for instance?

Goodness knows they drift across Southern England rarely enough considering they move not far across the Channel.

John

A few years ago I saw a flock of nine Cranes flying southwest over Aberdeen, having left Loch of Strathbeg a bit earlier. They apparently arrived at Caerlaverock later that day. Think this was late September.

 

[david kelly]

I have no evidence to contradict that but is there any in favour of it, such as regular Crane migration events across Scotland rather than further South? Do the Scottish ones disappear over the winter and return at typical Crane migration times for instance?

Goodness knows they drift across Southern England rarely enough considering they move not far across the Channel.

John

It was in a BB article on the Scottish population. They are migratory

“We believe that the Scottish recolonisation is most likely linked to recent increases in the western European and Scandinavian populations, rather than from birds originating in England. The northeastern bias in Scottish records suggests that most birds are migrants on their way to Scandinavia, drifting west as they head across the North Sea. Immigration from the expanding European population will likely be an important factor in the growth of the Scottish population. An increasing population in Scotland is likely to attract more passing migrants to remain and breed. Based on the behaviour of non-breeding birds summering in North-east Scotland, it is likely that pairs will establish breeding territories in suitable habitat throughout the region, radiating from the core area, with young fledged in the region pairing up and probably establishing territories locally as well (Hayes 2015).”

https://britishbirds.co.uk/content/occurrence-and-recolonisation-common-cranes-scotland

David

 

[jurek]

I think at least a part of the crane reintroduction project was to interest people in birds. I wonder if it succeeded in this, and whether / how it can be measured?

 

[Farnboro John]

It was in a BB article on the Scottish population. They are migratory

“We believe that the Scottish recolonisation is most likely linked to recent increases in the western European and Scandinavian populations, rather than from birds originating in England. The northeastern bias in Scottish records suggests that most birds are migrants on their way to Scandinavia, drifting west as they head across the North Sea. Immigration from the expanding European population will likely be an important factor in the growth of the Scottish population. An increasing population in Scotland is likely to attract more passing migrants to remain and breed. Based on the behaviour of non-breeding birds summering in North-east Scotland, it is likely that pairs will establish breeding territories in suitable habitat throughout the region, radiating from the core area, with young fledged in the region pairing up and probably establishing territories locally as well (Hayes 2015).”

https://britishbirds.co.uk/content/occurrence-and-recolonisation-common-cranes-scotland

David

"We believe" "suggests" "will likely" "is likely".....

The North-eastern bias in Scottish records could be explained by observer effort (why are there not more records in South-east Scotland or Northern England if it's North Sea drift migration that is causing the records?) or by English birds coasting in after travelling up. The tentative language makes it pretty clear the authors are simply speculating.

John

 

[Andy Lakin]

After a quick search I found out that they have recently returned to various European countries where they haven't bred for many years. The increase in breeding pairs has also been very rapid in some cases. Also I find it very interesting/ promising that pairs are breeding (in very small numbers) across a wide part of the U.K.

Makes you wonder what the capacity for pairs might be. How choosy are they about the habitat they breed in?

 

[david kelly]

"We believe" "suggests" "will likely" "is likely".....

The North-eastern bias in Scottish records could be explained by observer effort (why are there not more records in South-east Scotland or Northern England if it's North Sea drift migration that is causing the records?) or by English birds coasting in after travelling up. The tentative language makes it pretty clear the authors are simply speculating.

John

They have certainly increased in this part of southern Scotland, as passage migrants. They have become annual since 2018, whereas there had been 16 records up to then. The English population is non-migratory, although it is dispersive. That does not prove the authors' speculation, but it does explain why they think that may be the case. The paper in BB also explains that the Scottish Cranes prefer raised bogs in pastoral landscapes. In my part of Scotland we have very few raised bogs and an intensely arable landscape, and very few other wetlands. Unfortunately, I don't think it's a suitable area for breeding Cranes.

David

 

[Paul Chapman]

Personally, I think it's fantastic that there are now Cranes in growing numbers, Red Kites two a penny across much of England and indeed that White-tailed Eagles are being given an additional helping hand. Sure, we can say they may have all recolonised these areas naturally at some hazy point in the future, but these are still success stories, the birds are there now, not maybe in the future.

As for drawing funds away from more needed conservation causes, I don't buy it. This almost certainly, in my opinion, just draws money into these projects that would not have otherwise been used in conservation. It's not an either or, it's this and this.

Substantial funding comes through money that could have been allocated to other conservation projects:-

Species Recovery Programme Capital Grant Scheme awards

By Karen Shelley-Jones, Species Recovery Programme Manager and James Phillips, Principal Adviser for Species Recovery and Species Re-introductions England’s species are amazing. They can charm, intrigue, amaze, inspire and frighten us. They spark our interest and concern. They are also …

naturalengland.blog.gov.uk

As a result, if you are engaged on conservation projects, you end up having conversations with people who are looking to find something to "reintroduce" to qualify for funding and as a result, you have to explain to them why various projects have previously failed eg some Marsh Fritillary attempts locally.

You also become aware that some look for token or headline reintroduction projects so the preparatory work can be used in habitat and biodiversity studies of land under their ownership as otherwise they do not have the funding or expertise. Sometimes, they even lack the end goal of the reintroduction.

So in short, what I have seen is money diverted that could otherwise have been used more productively and a lack of voices for what could slow biodiversity decline eg land purchase for conservation & public messaging on stopping habitat clearance, use of pesticides, etc.

All the best

Paul