My first days with the Canon A640 (1 Viewer)

Neil · Sep 14, 2006

I'll start another thread on this new camera in the A Series from Canon as I'm sure there will be many people interested in . I will say in advance that this is my first Canon camera and I've not been overly impressed with their cameras from a digiscoping perspective in the past. This camera hasn't changed my mind either. You can digiscope with this camera but it is not easy. The behavior of the lens is strange so that almost as soon as you start zooming from the Wide position the image gets smaller and smaller (and the vignetting gets worse ) until you way out toward the tele end . I've tried it with 4 different eyepieces with Eye Relief from 15mm to 32 mm . I guestimate it would work best with a 20x eyepiece with at least 25mm of Eye Relief. The lens is 35 - 140 mm which is bit long when you have to zoom out to almost the 140mm end to eliminate vignetting. With the Fuji F30 on the Swarovski 30x there is no vignetting at wide zoom and you can zoom straight out without changing the camera position (even the Olympus 7070wz which is my preferred camera won't do this. It would be best to set the camera up to reduce vignetting to a minimum and then leave it in that position. I was surprised that the screen doesn't show the zoom position as you zoom in and out so your not sure where it is (this may be a function that I haven't found yet). I was disappointed with the Auto Focus as I got a lot of out of focus photos which I didn't expect with the rotatable screen( I get more with the F30 than with the Olympus as it doesn't have a rotatable screen ). I was surprised at how slow the 1.5 frames per second seemed too compared to the F30 and the Olympus. It's programable Self-timer is a wonderul feature which I've dreamed about for years and the Manual focusing enlarged screen is the best I've seen. It's much more noisy at iso 400 and iso 800 than the F30 but better at iso 400 than the Olympus.
I didn't seem to get as many good images with the A640 as I expected considering it's quality when not on the scope. Here are some first efforts.
I haven't done any scientific testing and there may be things about the camera I haven't understood so I'm looking forward to hearing comments from other A series users. Neil.

Brian Stone · Sep 14, 2006

Thanks for this Neil. I want to check out this camera when it becomes available here. It should have good macro performance.

I'd be interested to hear anyone's experiences using this family of cameras with Leica scopes.

Robert L Jarvis · Sep 14, 2006

Interesting points there Neil on the A640. I have been wondering about this camera as a possible replacement to my A95. I was attracted not just by the 10 mp but faster focus and processing as well as USB 2 download amd larger lcd.

As for Canon they do not show zoom levels on any of their compacts as far as I am aware certainly not on the A95, 610, and 620.

Have you any experience of the Olympus SP350?

Paul Jarvis · Sep 14, 2006

Hi Neil

I am using the A620 and am happy with it for my level of photography. My best pics come from 20x on the eyepiece, as far as I can tell the A640 has the same features as mine exept for the 10mp and a bigger screen. Out of interest would you say the bigger screen is easier to get sharp pics apposed to a small one like the 4500 when fine focusing the image.

Neil · Sep 14, 2006

Paul,
I had looked at your gallery and you've done a good job with this camera. I'm coming from my experience with many different cameras and am always looking for a "better mousetrap". What adapter are you using and what is the Eye Relief of your eyepiece?
The screen is very good and much better than the CP4500 and the Olympus 7070wz and similar to the Fuji F30 which is not rotatable unfortunately.
As your images show there is shadowing in the corners. I was also concerned at how it handled white. It seemed to blow out the whites badly but I'll do more tests on a little egret today. Neil.

Neil · Sep 14, 2006

Robert L Jarvis said:
Interesting points there Neil on the A640. I have been wondering about this camera as a possible replacement to my A95. I was attracted not just by the 10 mp but faster focus and processing as well as USB 2 download amd larger lcd.

As for Canon they do not show zoom levels on any of their compacts as far as I am aware certainly not on the A95, 610, and 620.

Have you any experience of the Olympus SP350?

Robert,
I would stick to your A95 for digiscoping as it's 3x lens sounds more "digiscoping friendly". If you want to upgrade, the Olympus SP Series , the Nikon P Series and the newer Sony W Series are showing good results. You want to be looking at lenses that zoom in the range 24 -120 mm (the Canon A640 goes to 140 mm which seems a bit long ). I was lured to the Canon by the rotatable screen which blinded me to the lens issue - it was an impulse purchase too as I went in to my local shop to pick up something else and the camera was sitting right in front of me. Neil.

Robert L Jarvis · Sep 15, 2006

Neil, understand your concerns using the A640 but take a look at the gallery of Jourdaj and he uses a A620.

Paul Jarvis · Sep 15, 2006

Neil said:
Paul,
I had looked at your gallery and you've done a good job with this camera. I'm coming from my experience with many different cameras and am always looking for a "better mousetrap". What adapter are you using and what is the Eye Relief of your eyepiece?
The screen is very good and much better than the CP4500 and the Olympus 7070wz and similar to the Fuji F30 which is not rotatable unfortunately.
As your images show there is shadowing in the corners. I was also concerned at how it handled white. It seemed to blow out the whites badly but I'll do more tests on a little egret today. Neil.

Neil

I agree there is some slight shadowing in the corners of some photos but I can live with this as I said for my level of photography I am happy. The adapter that I am using is an alignment collar from SRB film which has a set ER at 2mm from the eyepiece when zoomed out to 4x. I should say as well that the camera lens never touches the eyepiece when using this adapter.

http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=63894

Heres the thread with my camera settings and adapter.

john-henry · Sep 16, 2006

Neil said:
I'll start another thread on this new camera in the A Series from Canon as I'm sure there will be many people interested in . I will say in advance that this is my first Canon camera and I've not been overly impressed with their cameras from a digiscoping perspective in the past. This camera hasn't changed my mind either. You can digiscope with this camera but it is not easy. The behavior of the lens is strange so that almost as soon as you start zooming from the Wide position the image gets smaller and smaller (and the vignetting gets worse ) until you way out toward the tele end . I've tried it with 4 different eyepieces with Eye Relief from 15mm to 32 mm . I guestimate it would work best with a 20x eyepiece with at least 25mm of Eye Relief. The lens is 35 - 140 mm which is bit long when you have to zoom out to almost the 140mm end to eliminate vignetting. With the Fuji F30 on the Swarovski 30x there is no vignetting at wide zoom and you can zoom straight out without changing the camera position (even the Olympus 7070wz which is my preferred camera won't do this. It would be best to set the camera up to reduce vignetting to a minimum and then leave it in that position. I was surprised that the screen doesn't show the zoom position as you zoom in and out so your not sure where it is (this may be a function that I haven't found yet). I was disappointed with the Auto Focus as I got a lot of out of focus photos which I didn't expect with the rotatable screen( I get more with the F30 than with the Olympus as it doesn't have a rotatable screen ). I was surprised at how slow the 1.5 frames per second seemed too compared to the F30 and the Olympus. It's programable Self-timer is a wonderul feature which I've dreamed about for years and the Manual focusing enlarged screen is the best I've seen. It's much more noisy at iso 400 and iso 800 than the F30 but better at iso 400 than the Olympus.
I didn't seem to get as many good images with the A640 as I expected considering it's quality when not on the scope. Here are some first efforts.
I haven't done any scientific testing and there may be things about the camera I haven't understood so I'm looking forward to hearing comments from other A series users. Neil.

Neil, the problem, as I see it, with the Canon 4x zoom lens is its method of operation i.e. one part of it working inside the other therefore moving the barrel forwards and backwards continuosly instead of in a single linear movement and nothing can be done to improve this for digiscoping. I've tried the A620 on a Zeiss 85 scope and can get rid of vignetting only on a small portion of central zoom, others get slightly different areas depending on their eyepiece, but I have yet to hear of anyone getting a decent vignetting free working range from this camera, by working range I mean once vignetting is cleared you are free to use the rest of the cameras', and scopes' zoom to shoot with.
It's a crying shame that Canon have moved away from their 3x zoom lens, if they had used this in their newer cameras I feel sure they would be on a worldwide winner for digiscoping, everything else is there but the lens just does not give the versatility of use required for easy digiscoping. I know some people use it successfully, mainly hand-holding and moving the camera backwards and forewards for each shot, but this would be greatly improved if a full range of zoom was possible.

I have been using the A95 for the last couple of years and have yet to find a camera that I consider worth changing to, not because of advancements in technology, (better noise reduction - although apart from a minority of cameras not neccessarily a guarantee of better quality; larger screen - although this is not always an improvement unless the pixel count of the screen increases with it, I find using a shade/magnifier gives a grainier view than with a smaller screen; speed of shooting is a bonus but not really that important in my book; more megapixels - again I don't really see the point unless A3 prints or larger are required, 5 mpix will give a good A4 print; etc. etc.), but the A95 (and no doubt some of the other older cameras) is very user friendly, gives good quality, uses AA batteries and CF cards, both cheap and easily accessable worldwide, important if you are travelling about, and is fast enough to get your shot in most situations.
I've put a couple of pics below to show what the 'old' A95 can produce.

It is only a suggestion but perhaps the better digiscoping cameras lie in the past rather than the present.

Hopefully more people will throw in their pennyworth to this thread and get a good discussion going on what they consider (or wish) a good digiscoping camera should be.

regards

John

Mickymouse · Sep 16, 2006

john-henry said:
Hopefully more people will throw in their pennyworth to this thread and get a good discussion going on what they consider (or wish) a good digiscoping camera should be.

regards

John

Nice pics, if I could get that quality regularly I wouldn't change my camera either. I used to use a Canon A510 which was pretty good but it lacked C mode which meant you had to set it up every time you switched it on which got tedious so I upgraded to a Canon A 610 which is a nice camera in every way except the vignetting, the annoying thing is that the problems stem from the zoom increase from 3 to 4 which is insignificant in practical terms.

Mick

Neil · Sep 17, 2006

john-henry said:
Neil, the problem, as I see it, with the Canon 4x zoom lens is its method of operation i.e. one part of it working inside the other therefore moving the barrel forwards and backwards continuosly instead of in a single linear movement and nothing can be done to improve this for digiscoping.

John,
For Canon lovers the A95 obviously is the way to go. Your images confirm that. I didn't consider it in the past as it doesn't have RAW. Does it have a rotating screen? If the A640 and the Fuji f30 got together it would be very special camera (although still no RAW ). Keep you eye on Olympus, Fuji and Sony as they are more likely to come up with "digiscoping friendly" cameras, although I worry there about the lack of a rotatable screen and RAW. I've given up on ever seeing a remote again.
Neil.
ps I would like to pick up a second-hand A95. I'll keep me eyes open.

ricklawes · Sep 17, 2006

Neil said:
john-henry said:

Neil, the problem, as I see it, with the Canon 4x zoom lens is its method of operation i.e. one part of it working inside the other therefore moving the barrel forwards and backwards continuosly instead of in a single linear movement and nothing can be done to improve this for digiscoping.

John,
For Canon lovers the A95 obviously is the way to go. Your images confirm that. I didn't consider it in the past as it doesn't have RAW. Does it have a rotating screen? If the A640 and the Fuji f30 got together it would be very scecial camera (although still no RAW ). Keep you eye on Olympus, Fuji and Sony as they are more likely to come up with "digiscoping friendly" cameras, although I worry there about the lack of a rotatable screen and RAW. I've given up on ever seeing a remote again.
Neil.
ps I would like to pick up a second-hand A95. I'll keep me eyes open.

Click to expand...

Hi
Recently bought an A-95 to back-up my CP990 which I still consider for me is better than the CP4500, have not used the 990 since.The A-95 in mint condition with extras on that well known site going for around £130 ABOUT 2/3 of the price of a CP4500.

Regards
Rick Lawes

john-henry · Sep 17, 2006

Neil said:
john-henry said:

Neil, the problem, as I see it, with the Canon 4x zoom lens is its method of operation i.e. one part of it working inside the other therefore moving the barrel forwards and backwards continuosly instead of in a single linear movement and nothing can be done to improve this for digiscoping.

John,
For Canon lovers the A95 obviously is the way to go. Your images confirm that. I didn't consider it in the past as it doesn't have RAW. Does it have a rotating screen? If the A640 and the Fuji f30 got together it would be very scecial camera (although still no RAW ). Keep you eye on Olympus, Fuji and Sony as they are more likely to come up with "digiscoping friendly" cameras, although I worry there about the lack of a rotatable screen and RAW. I've given up on ever seeing a remote again.
Neil.
ps I would like to pick up a second-hand A95. I'll keep me eyes open.

Click to expand...

Neil, just to confirm the A95 does have a rotatable screen and also gives a good indication of the zoom position via the aperture setting shown on screen i.e. as the zoom moves up in steps it corresponds to f-Nos of 2.8, 3.2, 3.2, 3.5, 4.0, 4.5, and 4.9 giving a pretty good idea of what zoom you're using.

regards

John

buzzard12 · Sep 18, 2006

I would echo John henrys opinion, having bought an A95 six months ago, after advice from many on this forum. Personally I couldnt live with the vigneting problems the newer canon cameras cause. I have found the A95 simple to use and am happy with the images I get. Hopefully the perfect camera will come along someday, till then I will stick to the the A95...

Robert L Jarvis · Sep 18, 2006

For a digiscoping camera for the future let me tell you now, have a look at the Canon Ixus 900ti, external 3x zoom, 10 mp, Digic 3 processor, 2.5 lcd of 230000 pixels, it does bursts at 2.1 fps, the only thing is I am not sure if it or has a mounting screw socket, take a peek for yourself.

This camera though looks right.

Neil · Sep 22, 2006

Robert's comments got me back testing the A640 again with better results. On the Swarovski 30x eyepiece I found a position at 21.7 mm on the zoom (about 75%) where vignetting was minimised (this is using the Scopetronix EZ-Pix 1 . The EZ-Pix 11 would probably be better on the 30x eyepiece as the camera lens is almost too wide for the 1 ). The attached Night Heron photo was taken at iso 100 at this postion from a distance of about 25 meters. I then tested the camera on the older Swarovski 22x and the two composite photos show the results at Wide Zoom (minor vignetting) and Middish Zoom (60%) with no obvious vignetting. This involved sliding the camera in and out while zooming to find the right postion and then locking down. This means that you can't use the camera zoom easily for framing your subject. I need to do more work with other eyepieces because as I've said previously the camera has some very nice features which I would like to take advantage of. I look forward to more feedback on this subject. Neil.

Robert L Jarvis · Sep 22, 2006

Neil
That Night Heron is very good. The A640 is not the perfect camera, but there again there is not one. It also may be more suitable with certain scopes and eyepieces than others.

Look forward to seeing the results of your further work and your conclusions.

Robert

ajmorales · Oct 7, 2006

Canon A610 Success

My experience has been in the last 6 months shooting with the Canon A610. I can attribute the success to the choice of eyepieces in the 2" flavor. I am using a 2" 26mm Plossl an my converted 750mm (from my 35mm days) to a 30ish power scope. Attached are my reference shots showing little vignetting at the widest 7.3mm zoom setting. All shots scaled to 640x480, no cropping.

AJ

Paul Jarvis · Oct 7, 2006

Exactly the point. My eyepiece glass is 27mm in diameter which is bigger than most, hence not as much vignetting as people make out. Still say the later canons are up there with the best of them.

Neil · Oct 7, 2006

AJ,
The A610 looks like it has the same lens as the A640. You are getting a lot less vingetting at wide zoom with your setup than I'm getting with the Scopetronix Maxview S eyepiece. The trouble I've found with the lens is that immediately you zoom the lens a little from wide the vignetting gets very bad and doesn't get better until about 2/3 rds into the zoom. This means on a 30x power eyepiece you will get too much magnification and more likely to get soft images. You can see this in you example. I notice also that you are still getting dark corners at full zoom or is that my imagination. Neil.

My first days with the Canon A640 (1 Viewer)

Well-known member

Attachments

A Stone chatting

Robert L Jarvis

Registered Member

Attachments

Well-known member

Well-known member

Robert L Jarvis

Registered Member

Well-known member

Attachments

Ubuntu Linux user

Well-known member

Birding for Fun

Well-known member

Well-known member

Attachments

Robert L Jarvis

Well-known member

Attachments

Robert L Jarvis

Active member

Attachments

Registered Member

Well-known member

Similar threads

Users who are viewing this thread