newfie ghost
Well-known member
As picky as we are on BF they best get it right.
-
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Victory HT:New Zeiss Homepage (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter tonimaroni
- Start date
Alexis Powell
Natural history enthusiast
I wonder. One of the things that has changed dramatically over the past five years or so is how new cameras and lenses are marketed. It used to be that consumers learned of new products not long before their actual release, and those announcements and releases often were timed around annually scheduled trade shows. Product lifetimes were long relative to the times between product announcements. Perhaps because of the very short time to obsolescence/model replacement of digital cameras, these patterns have changed dramatically, even for products (like lenses) that still have very long production lifetimes. Two of the big changes are that announcements are now timed around fiscal quarters and such as much as they are trade shows, _and_ it is now standard practice for companies to announce that they will be coming out with a new product (and give some tantalizing details about its specs) long before it is manufactured and available, or even before its design has been finalized. The whole game of these teaser announcements seems to be part of a marketing arms race around keeping consumers from buying a competitor's product, that is available today, by getting them to wait in anticipation of the release of a superior product in the future. But of course, since all the companies are now doing this, it just makes for a lot of speculation and perpetual product anticipation, none of it of real use for making purchasing decisions in the here and now. I suppose, if a company didn't play this game, consumers might think that it was stagnant/not innovating.
I wonder to what extent the "delays" in releases of new high-profile bins are a reflection of true problems with design/patenting/production (as with bins like the Nikon EDG, and allegedly the Swarovski 8.5x42 SV, and with cameras made in Sendai like the D4 and D800), or with the current style of very early product announcement. They aren't mutually exclusive issues. In the "old days", since product announcements were made shortly before or synchronously with when they began shipping product, we'd have never known that a product was delayed from its originally planned (but not publicly communicated) release time. Now, when problems come up, the expected release dates have to be revised publicly.
--AP
I too wrote (in a Bf. thread) about all the expectation and speculation as a "dramatic overture" manipulated by Zeiss but I was being facetious.
Until AP's explanation I did not know this was a new trend, and thought that in this case (unlike Brock’s Mountain Dew episode!) a delay like this might be overall negative for the maker.
Two guesses! (a) |=)| In this case the product will justify that. (b) |8.| If binocular makers are going to do this there'll be a vast increase in Bf. posts!
Until AP's explanation I did not know this was a new trend, and thought that in this case (unlike Brock’s Mountain Dew episode!) a delay like this might be overall negative for the maker.
Two guesses! (a) |=)| In this case the product will justify that. (b) |8.| If binocular makers are going to do this there'll be a vast increase in Bf. posts!
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AP
Your comments on product launches are well observed.
In the UK, remarks from dealers indicate that they have received a series of 'availability dates' from Zeiss UK, that have later been revised in favour of later dates.
It is this that gives the impression of lack of organisation or a hitch in production and it is this that could frustrate some potential customers rather than intrigue and excite them.
Publicising a forthcoming product and then not putting a actual date on it until you can support this launch date with available product might be a better idea.
Lee
Your comments on product launches are well observed.
In the UK, remarks from dealers indicate that they have received a series of 'availability dates' from Zeiss UK, that have later been revised in favour of later dates.
It is this that gives the impression of lack of organisation or a hitch in production and it is this that could frustrate some potential customers rather than intrigue and excite them.
Publicising a forthcoming product and then not putting a actual date on it until you can support this launch date with available product might be a better idea.
Lee
brocknroller
porromaniac
I read AP's report with great interest. Although others who relish in "shop talk" may find it boring, to me, the marketing aspect of sports optics is intriguing.
After all, public perception from advertising and marketing is at least as important, if not more important, to bins sales as expert reviews. I'm talking John Q. Public (Quincy? Quasimodo? Quimby?), not the binonuts like us on BF who read allbinos, binomania, and who nitpick bins to death.
I don't know if Gary or anyone else gave a reason for the HT's delay, it might be as simple as the difficulty in trying to coordinate the launch through distributors and stores on both sides of the pond.
Or it could be a glitch in the design. That's more worrisome, because then you start thinking, did they start production and then find the glitch? And did they fix the glitch on those first production HTs or are some of us going to be getting defective samples, like the EDG I, that we'll need to send back?
Unlike the Mountain Dew example where everybody knew it was about building suspense, not knowing what is causing the hold-up can create doubt in the consumer's mind, as Pompadour and Troubadour mentioned (are they related?).
According to a Dartmouth study: "In the German firms, the planning process of a project tends to be long and very detail oriented. Plans are not implemented until they have been reviewed thoroughly."
http://www.dartmouth.edu/~german/German8/Typical.html
That suggests that like Paul Masson, Zeiss will sell no bin before its time.
It also makes me wonder if Zeiss does its own promotions, or if it outsources that function to an ad agency? That could also be the hold up. The madman could have changed strategies or Zeiss could have rejected their initial idea and sent them back to the drawing board.
A new program on AMC called "The Pitch" gives you a "fly on the wall" perspective during ad agencies' presentations to companies, some of them major companies such as Subway. Almost every "madman" was under 30. It's a young man's game even if they're selling Buicks.
Either Zeiss or the ad agency representing them, with their permission, decided that marketing the HT to hunters was a priority. Given the above statement from the Dartmouth study, Zeiss wouldn't have done that w/out marketing info that told them this is where the market demand was.
Or at least where it is for the US since they first showed the HT at a hunting meeting and exhibition in St. Louis in April where Tim McGraw, "an avid hunter and outdoorsman," was the opening act, and later performed at the Zeiss booth in the afternoon! How much you want to bet he got an HT to take home?
The rep introduced McGraw by saying: "Ve nicht machen Ferngläser nur für elitisch übermensch, ve vant zu zhow ve appeal to ze proletariat. Dim's frau, Faith, even lehrte uns zu linegedancin."
(made that last part up
. But it almost seems true, doesn't it?
<B>
After all, public perception from advertising and marketing is at least as important, if not more important, to bins sales as expert reviews. I'm talking John Q. Public (Quincy? Quasimodo? Quimby?), not the binonuts like us on BF who read allbinos, binomania, and who nitpick bins to death.
I don't know if Gary or anyone else gave a reason for the HT's delay, it might be as simple as the difficulty in trying to coordinate the launch through distributors and stores on both sides of the pond.
Or it could be a glitch in the design. That's more worrisome, because then you start thinking, did they start production and then find the glitch? And did they fix the glitch on those first production HTs or are some of us going to be getting defective samples, like the EDG I, that we'll need to send back?
Unlike the Mountain Dew example where everybody knew it was about building suspense, not knowing what is causing the hold-up can create doubt in the consumer's mind, as Pompadour and Troubadour mentioned (are they related?).
According to a Dartmouth study: "In the German firms, the planning process of a project tends to be long and very detail oriented. Plans are not implemented until they have been reviewed thoroughly."
http://www.dartmouth.edu/~german/German8/Typical.html
That suggests that like Paul Masson, Zeiss will sell no bin before its time.
It also makes me wonder if Zeiss does its own promotions, or if it outsources that function to an ad agency? That could also be the hold up. The madman could have changed strategies or Zeiss could have rejected their initial idea and sent them back to the drawing board.
A new program on AMC called "The Pitch" gives you a "fly on the wall" perspective during ad agencies' presentations to companies, some of them major companies such as Subway. Almost every "madman" was under 30. It's a young man's game even if they're selling Buicks.
Either Zeiss or the ad agency representing them, with their permission, decided that marketing the HT to hunters was a priority. Given the above statement from the Dartmouth study, Zeiss wouldn't have done that w/out marketing info that told them this is where the market demand was.
Or at least where it is for the US since they first showed the HT at a hunting meeting and exhibition in St. Louis in April where Tim McGraw, "an avid hunter and outdoorsman," was the opening act, and later performed at the Zeiss booth in the afternoon! How much you want to bet he got an HT to take home?
The rep introduced McGraw by saying: "Ve nicht machen Ferngläser nur für elitisch übermensch, ve vant zu zhow ve appeal to ze proletariat. Dim's frau, Faith, even lehrte uns zu linegedancin."
(made that last part up
. But it almost seems true, doesn't it? <B>
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Dorian Gray
Well-known member
Zeiss gets outsiders to do at least some of their ads. Pocket Hercules in Minneapolis has been responsible for some of them, because they say so here.
Rat Race Studios, also in Minneapolis (maybe hired by Pocket Hercules?), did the Conquest HD product photos on this page—you can tell because photographer Ken Friberg's name is embedded in the photos' metatdata. Googling him, I see he mentions a Zeiss ad here, this one aimed at birders.
Rat Race Studios, also in Minneapolis (maybe hired by Pocket Hercules?), did the Conquest HD product photos on this page—you can tell because photographer Ken Friberg's name is embedded in the photos' metatdata. Googling him, I see he mentions a Zeiss ad here, this one aimed at birders.
brocknroller
porromaniac
Nice detective work, Dorian!
Here's another clue for you ah--ah--all...
"Carl Zeiss Sports Optics has expanded its communications team as the company continues to implement its aggressive growth strategy. Robert J. Kaleta has been promoted to Director of Communications and Technical Operations. Formerly Technical Services Manager and Hunting Product Specialist for Zeiss, Kaleta will manage the newly expanded ZEISS communications team while continuing to function in his roles of product development and technical support for North America, especially within the hunting and shooting market segments....
"Kaleta is an avid hunter with SCI and Boone and Crockett record-book entries. He is well connected with the industry media and has participated in numerous outdoor radio and television interviews. He has also participated in many industry hunts and has excellent relationships within the guide and outfitter community."
http://www.shotbusiness.com/Article/NewsBriefs/detail.cfm?newsID=391
Also, note the "dateline" of the press release: Chester, VA. That's where the the hunting expo was in which the HT was first featured:
http://www.zeiss.com/41256AFB004A4E21/WebViewTopNewsAllE/E5CB3B071171C797852579DE00551196?OpenDocument
Now it's all starting to come together.
<B>
Brock
Loved your pseudeutsch but you missed off 'mit pumpernickel' which always adds a nice Bavarian touch I feel.
The two material changes from FL to HT are magnesium body and HT glass from Schott. I wonder if either of these is behind the stop-start introduction to the market (as seen from a UK perspective of multiple delivery dates reneged on).
For example I don't know what raw materials Schott needs for the HT glass but I wonder if China is gobbling up a significant proportion of the annual production of one or more of these raw materials?
Maybe Schott can produce enough HT glass for normal, steady demand but is finding it tough to support the huge build up in stocks/inventory needed to provide proper availability at launch in the USA (which looks as though it may be the first to get product) and Europe not to mention restofworld.
By the way I don't think I am related to Pompadour but I will ask Troubadoris (my wife) LOL.
Lee
Loved your pseudeutsch but you missed off 'mit pumpernickel' which always adds a nice Bavarian touch I feel.
The two material changes from FL to HT are magnesium body and HT glass from Schott. I wonder if either of these is behind the stop-start introduction to the market (as seen from a UK perspective of multiple delivery dates reneged on).
For example I don't know what raw materials Schott needs for the HT glass but I wonder if China is gobbling up a significant proportion of the annual production of one or more of these raw materials?
Maybe Schott can produce enough HT glass for normal, steady demand but is finding it tough to support the huge build up in stocks/inventory needed to provide proper availability at launch in the USA (which looks as though it may be the first to get product) and Europe not to mention restofworld.
By the way I don't think I am related to Pompadour but I will ask Troubadoris (my wife) LOL.
Lee
NDhunter
Experienced observer
Henry:
I am bringing this to the top, an older and the first thread here on the new Zeiss
HT.
Since there have been some posts on the new binocular, but not any at all in North America, this
thread has a lot of good discussion.
Edit: The pictures that were posted on this orig. post did not come through.
Jerry
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brocknroller
porromaniac
Well, perhaps if they hired more than 20 Hausfraus to work on the HT assembly line, the stores would have already been filled with HTs by now. They are obviously not in a "rush to market" the way Nikon was with the EDG I.
Zeiss is very popular with birders (and, oh yeah, hunters, at least in Europe. I'm told) so I'm puzzled why they are taking their sweet time in getting out a product that is obviously very much in demand. If it's a marketing strategy to create "buzz" over the product, it doesn't seem to be succeeding, in fact, it seems to be backfiring. The delays and slow production has gotten people who have deep enough pockets to buy an HT frustrated, which is pretty obvious from the HT threads.
My guess is that there was some glitch with the first production run (perhaps the Hausfraus were too busy "coffee klatching" [Partial translation of German Kaffeeklatsch : Kaffee, coffee + Klatsch, gossip] and forgot to put in a screw here or there). Or a design flaw was discovered during production and the designers had to go 'back to the drawing board' like Leonardo and Clyde Crashcup, and so they are blaming it on the fact that they could only find 20 women to work the line.
I don't know, but something smells fishy, and it's not Bacalah!
<B>
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Star Farmer
Well-known member
Lemme add my own speculation.
Zeiss' design objective for the HT was 5% better transmission over the FL. They went ahead with pilot production after they achieved 3%, but hesitant to go full steam ahead until they eke out the other 2%.
Again, pure speculation.
Zeiss' design objective for the HT was 5% better transmission over the FL. They went ahead with pilot production after they achieved 3%, but hesitant to go full steam ahead until they eke out the other 2%.
Again, pure speculation.
NDhunter
Experienced observer
Speculation is fun, and a large part of the talk on here. I am thinking it would
be very hard for Zeiss to achieve a 5% better trans. than the already bright
FL. A 3% improvement is a nice step up, and incremental improvements in
optical coatings.
The redesign in the construction, the armor and styling seem to be liked by
those that have them, and have used them.
So all in all, a nice improvement to the Zeiss flagship.
Jerry
