[Surreybirder]

Brian or someone.
I wonder if there's any chance of posting some pics of definitely IDed Hoplodrina species? Despite my best efforts at photoing uncertain/rustic (including some with hindwings showing to at least some extent) I'm still not getting anything accepted by my CR.
Ken

[Brian Stone]

I don't have many photographed hindwings but there are sets to look at online. E.g.:

The Uncertain (H. alsines/octogenaria)
http://www.funet.fi/pub/sci/bio/life...ctogenaria.jpg
http://www.habitas.org.uk/moths/set.asp?item=6486smup
http://www2.nrm.se/en/svenska_fjaril...togenaria.html

The Rustic (H. blanda)
http://www.funet.fi/pub/sci/bio/life...ina/blanda.jpg
http://www.habitas.org.uk/moths/set.asp?item=6487smup
http://www2.nrm.se/en/svenska_fjaril...na_blanda.html

Vine's Rustic (H. ambigua) is easier due to the dusty looking upper surface and the really clean whitish hindwings.

I have to say I wouldn't have called that one on the NI site The Uncertain:
http://www.habitas.org.uk/moths/set.asp?item=6486smup

HTH

[Brian Stone]

Having said that it looks like I photographed one of each on Saturday morning. Unless anyone thinks different. Note the following:

The Rustic:
'Shinier' upper surface to forewing;
Pale regions of the hindwing with dark veins standing out.

The Uncertain:
Bold, dark transverse bar mid-way along forewing;
Uniformly fuscous hindwing.

[Surreybirder]

You're much better at getting the moth to show its hindwing than I am... and on the few occasions I've managed it, the moth has often moved before I could get my camera lined up.
The one I posted in the 'late July' thread had only part of its hindwing showing, so perhaps that's why my CR called it a Hoplodrina sp.
http://www.birdforum.net/attachment....chmentid=26204
I'll have to keep trying.

Attached below are two photos from 2004 that my CR did accept... and a couple from this year that he hasn't.

Ken

[Brian Stone]

I'd have called that The Rustic: Slightly glossy look, lacking a clear dark band, inner part of hindwing clearly not fuscous, but I can see why he was cautious about going just by the picture.

[Surreybirder]

Originally Posted by brianhstone

I'd have called that The Rustic: Slightly glossy look, lacking a clear dark band, inner part of hindwing clearly not fuscous, but I can see why he was cautious about going just by the picture.

Thanks, Brian. I had it down as a possible rustic. I've now added a few more photos to my previous post... just to keep you awake
Ken

[Brian Stone]

Well I never put any of mine to species without a look at the hindwing. I am amazed he will accept some of these on just the forewing but not the other one where you have exposed the hindwing.

[Surreybirder]

Originally Posted by brianhstone

Well I never put any of mine to species without a look at the hindwing. I am amazed he will accept some of these on just the forewing but not the other one where you have exposed the hindwing.

Perhaps I need to send him a couple of bodies!
Ken

[Angus T]

I don't have picture to hand, but one that throws many people off is Carcina quercana. Its a fairly distinctive micro that looks like a tortrix species, except it's not! I'm getting a few to light these days.

So worth looking it up. It has fairly long antennae as well.

[Surreybirder]

http://ukmoths.org.uk/showzoom.php?id=468
Thanks, Angus.
Another trap for the unwary is the no. of caddis flies that look quite moth-like. I believe that the main difference is that they have hairs rather than scales though this is hard to see. They often have long forward-pointing antennae. Perhaps someone has some pictures?
Ken

[Andrew]

For identification purposes when I measure the forewing for cross-checking in Waring et al, exactly what am I measuring on the forewing? Is it the leading edge down to the wing tip?

[Surreybirder]

Originally Posted by Andrew

For identification purposes when I measure the forewing for cross-checking in Waring et al, exactly what am I measuring on the forewing? Is it the leading edge down to the wing tip?

Page 6 of Waring gives a definition. It's the length of the costa (leading edge) from wing-tip to where it joins the thorax.
Ken

[Andrew]

Thanks Ken, I should read the stuff in Waring! Will do when I have finished my current book.

[Reader]

Originally Posted by Angus T

I don't have picture to hand, but one that throws many people off is Carcina quercana. Its a fairly distinctive micro that looks like a tortrix species, except it's not! I'm getting a few to light these days.

So worth looking it up. It has fairly long antennae as well.

hi Angus

There was one moth I found in August 2003 that was ID'd by either Ian Kimber or someone on BF as an Carcina quercana and I have attached it. Do you think the original ID was right?

I wasn't into mothing at all then it's just that it was found in our Kitchen in Leamington Spa.

[Brian Stone]

Bloody hell, I wouldn't question an ID by Ian K.! And especially not on a distinctive and attractive little micro like C. quercana.

[Reader]

Originally Posted by brianhstone

Bloody hell, I wouldn't question an ID by Ian K.! And especially not on a distinctive and attractive little micro like C. quercana.

I wasn't questioning an ID by Ian because I just couldn't remember who actually did ID it, after all this was two years ago and I'm lucky if I remember what happened last week never mind two years ago. lol

It is a cracking little moth though isn't it. I must admit that I can't recall seeing another one since.

[Surreybirder]

I seem to get far more common than scarce footmen (surprisingly!) and have not had the rarer ones. But I thought that this comparison of common and scarce might give a few ID pointers.
Ken

[Surreybirder]

At this time of year when there are six or more species of yellow underwings about I wonder if anyone has a good series of photos to show the key differences?
Large yellow underwing is very variable. I'll attach a couple of examples.
Ken

[Brian Stone]

Good idea Ken. Of course the one thing that isn't very variable on Large Yellow Underwing (Noctua pronuba) is the size and shape. There isn't anything else that big and long and 'hard'.

I make it seven Noctua yellow underwing species but the common five can be separated on size and shape.

Large (pronuba): see above.
Lesser (comes): a size down but still a chunky moth. shorter and broader than pronuba. No pic at the moment.
Broad-bordered (fimbriata): always an impressive moth, as large as pronuba but a very distinctive blunt front end and softly coloured banding.
Lesser Broad-bordered (janthe): smaller than comes and with a distinctive greenish "headband". there isn't much variation in upper forewing markings.
Least (interjecta): the baby of the bunch with a fairly uniform rich, reddish upperside. Looks more like other noctuids but still flashes the bright yellow hindwings like the others. Again no pic yet.

I must admit I have stopped looking for Lunar YU (N. orbona) but I've noticed a few "lessers" with rather dark marks near the wingtip so perhaps I should be checking more thoroughly. Any tips for things to point me in the right direction would be very welcome as I get hundreds of Lesser YU (N. comes) once they get going.

As for Langmaid's (janthina), dream on!

HTH

[Surreybirder]

I've edited this to put in a more convincing pic of a lesser yellow underwing. Also attached is a Least yellow underwing.
Ken

[Andrew]

I do find it troubling having to examine all my Large Yellow Underwings just in case but it's good to know nothing matches them size wise, makes it easier now.

[Brian Stone]

Originally Posted by Surreybirder

I believe this is a lesser yellow underwing... please say if not!! and a least yellow underwing.
Ken

That first pic looks like a Large (pronuba). It's long, relatively narrow, has a pale strip along the leading edge and a bold dark mark near the apex.

I've attached another Least YU (interjecta) pic and another Broad-bordered (fimbriata) that's had a close encounter with a bat by the look of it.

[Surreybirder]

As we are entering the square-spot rustic season, which is an unusually variable moth, I wondered if anyone has some good photos showing its different forms. Here are a couple.
Ken

[Reader]

Originally Posted by Surreybirder

As we are entering the square-spot rustic season, which is an unusually variable moth, I wondered if anyone has some good photos showing its different forms. Here are a couple.
Ken

I will add my two penneth. lol

[Surreybirder]

It's been said before, but the tip about using a paintbrush to examine the hindwings of moths does seem to work! (Occasionally you don't even need a paintbrush, but I think this one had been injured by my attempts to pot it.)
Shoulder-striped wainscot, the only other one I've seen, is quite distinctive with the pale edges to the wings and the long black shoulder-stripe, with further black stripes reaching the trailing edge of the wing.
Ken