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A question about adding birds to a list. (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Kaled
- Start date
It is a personal matter, though I don't know any birder who keeps a list that includes captive birds.
No reason why you couldn't keep a list of birds seen in captivity, maybe you could have a seperate list for captives.
Regards,
Andy
No reason why you couldn't keep a list of birds seen in captivity, maybe you could have a seperate list for captives.
Regards,
Andy
robinm
Registered User
No I wouldn't - but don't let me stop you!.
A more interesting question (and one I think has been discussed before) concerns escapees. I definitely wouldn't list Mrs Smith's escaped Norwegian Blue parrot (beautiful plumage), but I am in two minds about some species. For example, just last night I saw a Bar-headed goose. I know these have escaped from a collection at some point. Equally I know there is quite a large feral population in Kent - I've seen more than 20 at one time. I record it with "dodgy tick" marker.
A more interesting question (and one I think has been discussed before) concerns escapees. I definitely wouldn't list Mrs Smith's escaped Norwegian Blue parrot (beautiful plumage), but I am in two minds about some species. For example, just last night I saw a Bar-headed goose. I know these have escaped from a collection at some point. Equally I know there is quite a large feral population in Kent - I've seen more than 20 at one time. I record it with "dodgy tick" marker.
Beverlybaynes
Mod Squad
The same thought applies to reintroductions, like Whooping Cranes here in the US. There are so very few left that if you see any outside the routes of the 300 or so known wild birds (for example, seeing them here in Indiana), they are newly reintroduced and not considered 'wild', even though they are flying free.
I've been told that something like 7-9 generations must pass before the offspring of the re-intros can be considered truly wild.
Using that rule, I can truly count the peregrine falcon lifers I got earlier this summer: they were reintroduced in town in '92; my lifer sighting was in '03, 11 generations on.
But if I should actually see a Whooper soon, I'll certainly be adding it my list anywhere, even if there is a "highly dubious but terribly excited about it" tick next to it!
I've been told that something like 7-9 generations must pass before the offspring of the re-intros can be considered truly wild.
Using that rule, I can truly count the peregrine falcon lifers I got earlier this summer: they were reintroduced in town in '92; my lifer sighting was in '03, 11 generations on.
But if I should actually see a Whooper soon, I'll certainly be adding it my list anywhere, even if there is a "highly dubious but terribly excited about it" tick next to it!
Surreybirder
Ken Noble
But how do you know it's not the original peregrine 11 years old?Beverlybaynes said:
I think that the best approach is to count birds that are part of a sustainable population, even if they were originally released... for example the red kites that have been reintroduced into England are now breeding in the wild, and I personally would count them.
Beverlybaynes
Mod Squad
I see your point, Surreybirder -- how would I know that the youngsters I saw are truly 11th generation, being the g-g-g-g-g-g-g-g-g-grandbirds of the originally introduced pair? I don't.
One of the parents is 5-7 years old, the other is 2-4 years old.
But I know that these birds are very successfully breeding in the wild now, and no one is quibbling with my decision to count the ones I saw as lifers. Going on faith, I guess.
So I'm keepin' 'em!!
One of the parents is 5-7 years old, the other is 2-4 years old.
But I know that these birds are very successfully breeding in the wild now, and no one is quibbling with my decision to count the ones I saw as lifers. Going on faith, I guess.
So I'm keepin' 'em!!
dennis
Have binoculars. Will travel.
Guess I'll weigh-in Surreybirder and Beverly.
The American Birding Assoc.: Rule 2.B.iv states:
An indigenous species which is reintroduced into an historic range of the species may be counted when the population meets the ABA Checklist's definition of being established or when it is not possible to reasonably separate the reintroduced individuals from the naturally occuring individuals.
Beverly.....Since you can't tell, they count!!!!!!
dennis
The American Birding Assoc.: Rule 2.B.iv states:
An indigenous species which is reintroduced into an historic range of the species may be counted when the population meets the ABA Checklist's definition of being established or when it is not possible to reasonably separate the reintroduced individuals from the naturally occuring individuals.
Beverly.....Since you can't tell, they count!!!!!!
dennis
The rules are very clear. Escaped road-kill is definitely countable regardless of how it died. However the road-kill must not be merely dead, but like the Wicked Witch in OZ, it must be most sincerely dead.
There is an excellent book that deals with the subject called "Flattened Fauna:A Field Guide to Common Animals of Roads, Streets & Highways" by Roger Knutson (Ten Speed Press).
There is an excellent book that deals with the subject called "Flattened Fauna:A Field Guide to Common Animals of Roads, Streets & Highways" by Roger Knutson (Ten Speed Press).
Hanno
Ho Ho Ho
There is a discussion currently going on on the South African mailing list. Some people feel that Ostriches seen in, say, the Krueger National Park should not be counted as they are re-introduced birds, but of South African stock. What about all the Mynahs in the Middle East? They were introduced decades ago thrive rather well. However, they are not native U.A.E. birds. Tickable or not.
Charles Harper
Régisseur
I think it's a great idea. I'll start a Zoo List. I have an old friend and fine birder who, when he grew too infirm for in-the-field wildbirding, continued with a Television List. And we've already had threads on Yard Lists, Commutation Lists, Dream Lists. Multiple lists are kept by nearly every lister, Kaled.
CJW
Hit-and-run WUM
Sorry I missed this thread, but comments on another one have prompted this reply on here:
Situations making a bird "un-tickable":
1) A wild bird if only seen in the hand of a ringer (it’s OK once released)
2) A wild bird in a rehabilitation centre (it’s OK once released)
3) A re-introduced bird (or their offspring if less than 3rd generation)
4) A bird existing ‘in the wild’ if it’s origins are ‘suspect’ (sometimes a difficult call to make though).
5) Any bird in captivity, wing-clipped, in a ‘collection’ etc
6) A bird whose identification features were not seen but being told that it was ‘species x’ by another observer.
Ofcourse these are only the guidelines I follow, and what you put on your own lists is entirely up to you.
Situations making a bird "un-tickable":
1) A wild bird if only seen in the hand of a ringer (it’s OK once released)
2) A wild bird in a rehabilitation centre (it’s OK once released)
3) A re-introduced bird (or their offspring if less than 3rd generation)
4) A bird existing ‘in the wild’ if it’s origins are ‘suspect’ (sometimes a difficult call to make though).
5) Any bird in captivity, wing-clipped, in a ‘collection’ etc
6) A bird whose identification features were not seen but being told that it was ‘species x’ by another observer.
Ofcourse these are only the guidelines I follow, and what you put on your own lists is entirely up to you.
MikeMules
Well-known member
birds in a zoo, if they are "wild" and have flown in of their own accord, are fine for counting - I've picked up Buff-Banded Rail (plenty in the gardens of Weribee Zoo) and Tree Sparrow in the food courts.
If you want to share what you have seen with other people, they will probably be more interested in the free-ranging birds you have found, than captive birds that are guaranteed to be there. But then again, maybe they won't be!
If you want to share what you have seen with other people, they will probably be more interested in the free-ranging birds you have found, than captive birds that are guaranteed to be there. But then again, maybe they won't be!
James Armstrong
Flowerpot Man
I like the idea of a"dodgy tick" marker as RobinM suggests but what does it look like as I think I'd like to use it? For example I helped somebody rescue an injured storm-wrecked gannet near Gloucester years ago. We put it in a box and took it to a rescue centre. Another time I rescued an oiled-up Guillemot from the beach at Sandgate. I suppose I feel they are "dodgy" because they weren't "unrestrained".
Michael Frankis
conehead
Hi James,
The Gannet you can tick, if you were involved in its rescue and saw it before it was taken into captivity. If someone else rescued it and you only saw it after it was caught, then no you can't tick it
The Guillemot, probably the same, but somehow, a thick coating of oil does cast a pall over the tick - if it was only lightly oiled, and you were the finder and rescuer, then you can count it. If it was so thickly covered as to be a slimy black lump, it isn't so easy, I guess you can say you didn't see it, all you saw was the layer of oil covering it
Michael
The Gannet you can tick, if you were involved in its rescue and saw it before it was taken into captivity. If someone else rescued it and you only saw it after it was caught, then no you can't tick it
The Guillemot, probably the same, but somehow, a thick coating of oil does cast a pall over the tick - if it was only lightly oiled, and you were the finder and rescuer, then you can count it. If it was so thickly covered as to be a slimy black lump, it isn't so easy, I guess you can say you didn't see it, all you saw was the layer of oil covering it
Michael
Oh My Gawd!!!!!
I'm really glad that I'm not a serious "ticker", the complications are tooooo extreme. I'm just happy to see a new bird every ten years or so. It keeps me young.
Love reading about it though so keep on adding new ways to find a tick'. ----- I get enough of them by just walking through the grass hereabouts, the rotten bloodsuckers.
Nancy
I'm really glad that I'm not a serious "ticker", the complications are tooooo extreme. I'm just happy to see a new bird every ten years or so. It keeps me young.
Love reading about it though so keep on adding new ways to find a tick'. ----- I get enough of them by just walking through the grass hereabouts, the rotten bloodsuckers.
Nancy
James Armstrong
Flowerpot Man
Hi Michael,
Thanks for the feedback. I think I'll leave them off! Got to go and do some serious seabird watching. Thinking of going to the Farne Islands. Good?
Thanks for the feedback. I think I'll leave them off! Got to go and do some serious seabird watching. Thinking of going to the Farne Islands. Good?
