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Where premium quality meets exceptional value. ZEISS Conquest HDX.

Alpha-class binocs? (1 Viewer)

Having worked for varying manufacturers there is is often an extra charged made for very strong brands. You may be able to sell them for
more based on a very similar specification product if you can get them to appreciate the brand value.

With heritage brands this can add more due to the ‘story’ that you can buy into. You aren’t just buying the product but the ‘history and lifestyle’ that it represents.

There are the extra costs, R&D, Warranty, Spares, higher production costs etc. What seems more of a concern is there seems to be a restricted ‘free market’ on some brands to be a ‘dealer’ (but that’s probably another story) so you don’t see much direct competition?!

You also do see some Chinese and Japanese binoculars that are the same but released under different brands and they charge more if there is a perceived value associated with their brand.
Everything you say is correct, but I doubt you are prepared to claim that those factors alone explain a $2,000 price difference.

Spend more, and you get a better instrument, no matter how many rail against that simple and fundamental fact.

Anyone who says “A Swarovski NL is not worth $2,000 more than a Whatever” is neither stating an objective fact or an attribute of the NL. They are stating an opinion, and those are like that other thing that everyone has one of.
 
Now that you mention it, I suppose it is true that my question was a bit tongue-in-cheek.
I really think the "alpha" designation itself was supposed to be! But it's been taken and argued over too seriously, got mired in class prejudices, and lost its sense of amusement. It sounds like your goal is to buy such a good bin that you're not missing out on a substantially(!) better experience, and most reasonable people would agree that an EL should still do the trick. The most recently designed model I own myself is 2014.
 
Price reflects manufacturers cost. When the manufacturer spends more money, you get better materials, construction, and design.
I am happy to pay premium prices for premium features, especially if those features are important to me. That is why I am happy that SW offers the EL as well as the NL Pure. I do not need 2m close focus, wider FOV, sexy contoured barrels, or a nice carrying case. If not having those can save me some money, I’m all for it. I’m still expecting to get the same quality of glass, design, construction, robustness, and customer support.

On the topic of manufacturing cost vs. selling price, my career was in marine engineering. To price our products, we would add up all of our costs, including overhead, to the very best of our ability, then multiply that by pi to get our selling price. Even then, at year end we were usually near break-even or even losing money, hahaha!
 
Price reflects manufacturers cost. When the manufacturer spends more money, you get better materials, construction, and design.

Surely no sane person believes that if two manufacturers each make a $1,000 binocular, that one of them will sell it for $3,000.

The big contention here is whether a $3,000 glass is “worth the difference” or “three times as good as” the $1,000 one.

No one here has been able to define or measure “three times as good as” (or “three times better than”)
Well said🦅🦅🦅
 
Lifetime of what ?

Jerry
Hahaha, good point! Zeiss’s warranty says for the life of the product, whatever that means. Maven’s and Swarovski’s warranty just say lifetime, but not of what. Swaro’s warranty support does seem to be generous and accessible, at least for those of us in the US and Europe. I especially enjoyed this video about Swarovski Optik NA.
 
I suppose there are two ways to approach the problem.

1. See what is offered in the marketplace, and select therefrom.
2. Make up a list of what you expect and require, then try to find it.

I think method one results in fewer disappointments and less frustration and dissatisfaction.
Just my opinion, as always.
 
I bought Nikon M7 8x42s for our 2 daughters, and they like them a lot, so I did consider the MHG. One thing that drew me to the Zeiss SF 8x32 and SV EL 8.5x42 was their longer eye relief, 19 and 20 mm per spec, respectively, and 16 and 17 mm usable. The MHG has ER of 18 spec, 15 usable, which may be good enough, but I’d want to try it first. Still, saving $1000 probably makes it worth the drive. (Local stores like REI only carry the M7.)
Don’t get hung up on the word Alpha. You made a great choice; the ELs are in the top four best binoculars being made today. They're all alphas and all about on the same level optically; the only differences are some FOV specs and color hues; that’s about it. Don’t even think about comparing it to the MHG; it's good glass but a clear step down.
 
I am happy to pay premium prices for premium features, especially if those features are important to me. That is why I am happy that SW offers the EL as well as the NL Pure. I do not need 2m close focus, wider FOV, sexy contoured barrels, or a nice carrying case. If not having those can save me some money, I’m all for it. I’m still expecting to get the same quality of glass, design, construction, robustness, and customer support.

On the topic of manufacturing cost vs. selling price, my career was in marine engineering. To price our products, we would add up all of our costs, including overhead, to the very best of our ability, then multiply that by pi to get our selling price. Even then, at year end we were usually near break-even or even losing money, hahaha!
Cuz you multiplied by Pi…
 
Thank you! I have heard about this, and it is a concern. I also read that it can be mitigated by adjusting the angle and position of the binoculars with respect to your face and eyes. Wearing my glasses when viewing might make it worse. It is one of the first things I will experiment with.
Don’t worry about it; it’s all individual and about the angle and how much glare you’ll see in any binoculars. Sometimes one binocular will have more glare at one angle than another, then slightly change the angle, and suddenly it’s better than the one that was better just before. It's very misleading when photos are taken of multiple binoculars at the same angle and come to a definitive conclusion of how they are going to perform for you. Even more so when magnifiers/boosters are used in the photo. Some people see glare in a dark, if you get what I’m saying.
 
Don’t get hung up on the word Alpha. You made a great choice; the ELs are in the top four best binoculars being made today. They're all alphas and all about on the same level optically; the only differences are some FOV specs and color hues; that’s about it. Don’t even think about comparing it to the MHG; it's good glass but a clear step down.
But the MHG is a step-up in glare resistance, a step-up in FOV with an 8.3 degree FOV instead of a puny 7.6 degrees FOV, no stupid FP strap attachments, the armor won't peel off, and it is 6 oz. lighter for $1000 less. That is a no-brainer, I think!
 
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Don’t worry about it; it’s all individual and about the angle and how much glare you’ll see in any binoculars. Sometimes one binocular will have more glare at one angle than another, then slightly change the angle, and suddenly it’s better than the one that was better just before. It's very misleading when photos are taken of multiple binoculars at the same angle and come to a definitive conclusion of how they are going to perform for you. Even more so when magnifiers/boosters are used in the photo. Some people see glare in a dark, if you get what I’m saying.
When jackjack takes his photos, he makes sure the binoculars are all square and consistently the same against his camera lens. If the binocular shows glare when it is perfectly square against your eyes, it is going to be worse if you change the angle. In my experience, jackjack photos do a good job of showing the relative glare of different binoculars because I have compared them myself. Most EL's and NL's are glare monsters, like he says. It is an undeniable fact!
 
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I think you ought to check out porros. Efficient design, cheaper, and mostly more transparent than any roof. Personally, I rock those Swarovski Habicht to tha bone!!
Especially the Swarovski Habicht 7x42 GA. It just crucified the new Leica UVHD+ 7x42 I compared it with. I had the Leica boxed up for return in less than an hour!
 
But the MHG is a step-up in glare resistance, a step-up in FOV with an 8.3 degree FOV instead of a puny 7.6 degrees FOV, no stupid FP strap attachments, the armor won't peel off, and it is 6 oz. lighter for $1000 less. That is a no-brainer, I think!
As a glasses wearer, one of my main concerns is usable eye relief. The Monarch HG’s is 15mm, compared to the EL’s 17mm. 15mm may work, but only just. I think the additional 2mm will give me more flexibility. I expect the EL’s greater mass will help dampen shaking. We’ll see. Regarding the armor, 1) Swaro is supposed to have resolved the degradation issue, 2) I am not going to be using mine in the kind of environment that supposedly causes it, and 3) if it does happen, I am confident that Svaro Optik-NA customer service will take good care of me. I do support the notion of manufacturers being environmentally responsible and using sustainable materials.
 
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