AOU-NACC Proposals 2020 (2 Viewers)

[Peter Kovalik]

Proposals 2020-A

2020-A-1: Change the English name of Olive Warbler Peucedramus taeniatus to Ocotero
2020-A-2: Change the generic classification of the Trochilini (part 1)
2020-A-3: Change the generic classification of the Trochilini (part 2)
2020-A-4: Split Garnet-throated Hummingbird Lamprolaima rhami
2020-A-5: Recognize Amazilia alfaroana as a species not of hybrid origin, thus moving it from Appendix 2 to the main list
2020-A-6: Change the linear sequence of species in the genus Dendrortyx
2020-A-7a: Assign Starnoenas cyanocephala to the new monotypic subfamily Starnoenadinae
2020-A-7b: Change the English name of Starnoenas cyanocephala to Blue-headed Partridge-Dove
2020-A-8: Recognize Mexican Duck Anas diazi as a species
2020-A-9: Split Royal Tern Thalasseus maximus into two species
2020-A-10: Recognize Great White Heron Ardea occidentalis as a species
2020-A-11: Change the English name of Checker-throated Antwren Epinecrophylla fulviventris to Checker-throated Stipplethroat
2020-A-12: Modify the linear sequence of species in the Phalacrocoracidae
2020-A-13: Modify various linear sequences to reflect new phylogenetic data

 

[Steve Lister]

'Ocotero' hardly seems English to me.

 

[Andy Adcock]

'Ocotero' hardly seems English to me.

Seems a nonsense to me, what's the reason for abandoning the English name?

 

[Maffong]

Seems a nonsense to me, what's the reason for abandoning the English name?

It's explained in the proposal |^|
Olive Warbler is not a warbler. Ocotero is already in wide use through much of its range. It's not like this would be an unusual naming procedure, names like Mannikin, Elepaio, Quetzal, Tapaculo etc. are not particularly English names, either.

 

[Jim LeNomenclatoriste]

Olive Warbler is not a warbler.

What are they waiting for to do the same thing for Parulidae?

 

[njlarsen]

If the first part of the proposal had been named:
2020-A-1: Change the common name of Olive Warbler Peucedramus taeniatus to Ocotero

then I think the confusion would have been much less. By stating that it is the English name that gets changed there is an expectation that the proposed replacement actually is in English rather than Spanish.

Niels

 

[Andy Adcock]

It's explained in the proposal |^|
Olive Warbler is not a warbler. Ocotero is already in wide use through much of its range. It's not like this would be an unusual naming procedure, names like Mannikin, Elepaio, Quetzal, Tapaculo etc. are not particularly English names, either.

Well I looked at the link and couldn't be bothered to download a pdf...............

 

[Farnboro John]

So which international authorities are looking at these? Is this AOU catching up or breaking new ground? (I like the splits of Royal Tern and Great White Heron :t

John

 

[pbjosh]

Re: Olive Warbler - this is a essentially a Mexico/Guatemala/Honduras bird that barely makes it into the US and Nicaragua. The vast majority of its range is in Spanish speaking countries. I think that if you see fit to change the name (I'm ambivalent about the necessity), then Ocotero is a great name. The reasoning as to why is in the proposal. This is one of the few cases, in my opinion, where the new name is actually excellent instead of just a compromise or the best of a lot of unappealing options.

 

[pbjosh]

So which international authorities are looking at these? Is this AOU catching up or breaking new ground? (I like the splits of Royal Tern and Great White Heron :t

John

Not sure what you mean by asking which authorities are looking. Just to go over it, apologies if this isn't what you were asking:

In this case, the American Ornithology Assoc has a committee called the North American Classification Committee. Anyone can write up a proposal, and they vote on them, then the changes are made to the NA taxonomy. Clements/eBird essentially follows their decisions except for very rare digressions. More and more IOC is aligning itself with the NACC on North American taxonomy, and with the SACC on South American taxonomy, and Clements/eBird are aligning with IOC on old world taxonomy.

On the Great White Heron, the proposal makes it sound as if it is using new data to reverse a decision that came without a lot of scientific basis in an era when lumping was cool.

I didn't previously know about the African Royal Tern as a possible split, it is based on new genetic research it looks like. The proposal is quite informative, and worth reading. I should imagine that it will get split, though the NACC is still occasionally capable of some painfully conservative votes at times that reject things that many might call obvious

 

[Andy Adcock]

Not sure what you mean by asking which authorities are looking. Just to go over it, apologies if this isn't what you were asking:

In this case, the American Ornithology Assoc has a committee called the North American Classification Committee. Anyone can write up a proposal, and they vote on them, then the changes are made to the NA taxonomy. Clements/eBird essentially follows their decisions except for very rare digressions. More and more IOC is aligning itself with the NACC on North American taxonomy, and with the SACC on South American taxonomy, and Clements/eBird are aligning with IOC on old world taxonomy.

On the Great White Heron, the proposal makes it sound as if it is using new data to reverse a decision that came without a lot of scientific basis in an era when lumping was cool.

I didn't previously know about the African Royal Tern as a possible split, it is based on new genetic research it looks like. The proposal is quite informative, and worth reading. I should imagine that it will get split, though the NACC is still occasionally capable of some painfully conservative votes at times that reject things that many might call obvious

Obviously because we don't all use the same listing authority, I ascribe to the IOC who have not split it as yet, not even in their diary at the moment.

Re the Heron, will white Reef Egrets go the same way?

I like the Tern split too, assuming the IOC apply it..........:t:

 

[Andy Adcock]

Re: Olive Warbler - this is a essentially a Mexico/Guatemala/Honduras bird that barely makes it into the US and Nicaragua. The vast majority of its range is in Spanish speaking countries. I think that if you see fit to change the name (I'm ambivalent about the necessity), then Ocotero is a great name. The reasoning as to why is in the proposal. This is one of the few cases, in my opinion, where the new name is actually excellent instead of just a compromise or the best of a lot of unappealing options.

On that basis we can maybe look forward to another 4-5000 species in Spanish or Portuguese, maybe even Welsh?

 

[pbjosh]

On that basis we can maybe look forward to another 4-5000 species in Spanish or Portuguese, maybe even Welsh?

Not what I said at all, and not what anyone else is proposing. This is a strawman argument against a proposal that you have stated you've not even read.

 

[awiner]

On that basis we can maybe look forward to another 4-5000 species in Spanish or Portuguese, maybe even Welsh?

It's also a horribly taxonomically inaccurate name; it's not even vaguely related to any of the warbler families. So, no, they're not just arbitrarily renaming species based on their range.

 

[Kirk Roth]

Well I looked at the link and couldn't be bothered to download a pdf...............

...but it's an html???

 

[Farnboro John]

Not sure what you mean by asking which authorities are looking. Just to go over it, apologies if this isn't what you were asking:

In this case, the American Ornithology Assoc has a committee called the North American Classification Committee. Anyone can write up a proposal, and they vote on them, then the changes are made to the NA taxonomy. Clements/eBird essentially follows their decisions except for very rare digressions. More and more IOC is aligning itself with the NACC on North American taxonomy, and with the SACC on South American taxonomy, and Clements/eBird are aligning with IOC on old world taxonomy.

On the Great White Heron, the proposal makes it sound as if it is using new data to reverse a decision that came without a lot of scientific basis in an era when lumping was cool.

I didn't previously know about the African Royal Tern as a possible split, it is based on new genetic research it looks like. The proposal is quite informative, and worth reading. I should imagine that it will get split, though the NACC is still occasionally capable of some painfully conservative votes at times that reject things that many might call obvious

That's very helpful, thank you very much.

Cheers

John

 

[njlarsen]

I would like to add that my knee-jerk reaction to reading the name Ocotero was negative exactly because of the way it was presented (as an English name). Having read the actual proposal and used some time thinking about it I am ok with the new name.

Niels

 

[Nutcracker]

'Ocotero' hardly seems English to me.

It's actually a hybrid Nahuatl-Spanish name; 'Ocote' / 'Ocotl' is Nahuatl for pine, 'ero' a Spanish word ending which can mean 'associated with'. So it effectively means 'Pine Bird'.

 

[Nutcracker]

2020-A-9: Split Royal Tern Thalasseus maximus into two species

I didn't previously know about the African Royal Tern as a possible split, it is based on new genetic research it looks like. The proposal is quite informative, and worth reading. I should imagine that it will get split, though the NACC is still occasionally capable of some painfully conservative votes at times that reject things that many might call obvious

The data used to support this split, also necessitates the split of Cabot's Tern from Sandwich Tern (accepted several years ago by IOC; still not yet by AOU). It would be odd, and very inconsistent, if AOU accepted this split, while still rejecting the Cabot's Tern split. Surely the two should be considered together?

I like the Tern split too, assuming the IOC apply it..........:t:

It's still in their list of 'Proposed splits', not yet on the accepted list, but I'd guess IOC acceptance is a formality particularly if AOU-NACC accept it.

 

[pbjosh]

The data used to support this split, also necessitates the split of Cabot's Tern from Sandwich Tern (accepted several years ago by IOC; still not yet by AOU). It would be odd, and very inconsistent, if AOU accepted this split, while still rejecting the Cabot's Tern split. Surely the two should be considered together?

It's still in their list of 'Proposed splits', not yet on the accepted list, but I'd guess IOC acceptance is a formality particularly if AOU-NACC accept it.

I just went and looked through the 2017 paper on orange-billed terns that is the basis for the Royal Tern split, available here if anyone is interested:

https://academic.oup.com/biolinnean/article/121/2/439/3065482

The data for the Cabot's / Sandwich split looks very solid, but it's not yet been re-proposed to NACC. I didn't exhaustively scan old NACC proposals, but a Google search makes it look like NACC last considered this split in 2013, so they've not considered this newer data. I should think a proposal will be coming at some point?