Yeah, that was what I was wondering. If it was retirement or protest.
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AOU-NACC Proposals 2024 (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter gusasp
- Start date
Mysticete
Well-known member
In previous comments online he said he was leaving the AOS out of protest over the eponymous name situation. As far as I know he is still heavily involved with SACC
pbjosh
missing the neotropics
Not just that, but different members and different missions and, likely, somewhat differing ideologies.
Fun batch! Herring Gull feels overdue, shame to push it again.
Not to hyperfixate on eponyms here, but I LOVE all the new names. I also found it interesting who authored proposals that led to splits that embraced new, non-eponymous "daughter" names per AOS norms (Russet-naped vs. Sclater's; Cocos vs. Brewster's; Sargasso vs. Audubon's) as opposed to proposal authors who made no effort to accommodate the recent AOS policy (Cory's/Scopoli's). Wish I was more surprised.
Not to hyperfixate on eponyms here, but I LOVE all the new names. I also found it interesting who authored proposals that led to splits that embraced new, non-eponymous "daughter" names per AOS norms (Russet-naped vs. Sclater's; Cocos vs. Brewster's; Sargasso vs. Audubon's) as opposed to proposal authors who made no effort to accommodate the recent AOS policy (Cory's/Scopoli's). Wish I was more surprised.
ABA Checklist Committee (CLC) Report: July 2024 - American Birding Association
The ABA Checklist includes species found in the ABA Area which are breeding species, regular visitors, casual and accidental species from other regions that are believed to have strayed here unrestrained by humans, and well-established introduced species that are now part of our avifauna. This...
www.aba.org
The ABA says that they keep a list of ebird-AOS discrepancies, and that those are marked in their checklist. When you look at it, the ABA checklist follows ebird, and the AOS discrepancies are marked in parentheses. In other words, the AOS is reduced to a parenthetical note. The Lesser Sand-Plover split last year was from Cornell/Clements, not from the AOS; AOS still doesn't split Lesser Sand. I can find no discrepancies in English names except those caused by AOS being behind in splits, and those splits do not affect any birds except vagrants. So the Herring Gull situation is nothing new, and birders can add "American" to their Herring Gulls if they like.
The Redpoll lump is the only counter-example. The unofficial word is that Cornell/Ebird is going to lump them in November.
Daan Sandee
Peabody, MA
Mysticete
Well-known member
The Sand-plover was split in this years checklist update, so that will be one case where the lists are reconciled.
The Herring Gull situation is a case that would add species to the checklist. Vega Gull is regular in Alaska, while European Herring Gull has been regularly seen in Newfoundland. I would guess, especially with Vega Gull, that quite a few birders have seen at least one of these species in the ABA area (I just missed Vega Gull on my Nome trip many years ago, so sadly I am not one of them).
The Herring Gull situation is a case that would add species to the checklist. Vega Gull is regular in Alaska, while European Herring Gull has been regularly seen in Newfoundland. I would guess, especially with Vega Gull, that quite a few birders have seen at least one of these species in the ABA area (I just missed Vega Gull on my Nome trip many years ago, so sadly I am not one of them).
I was referring more to the willful ambivalence to keep Cory's in the promotion of borealis.
Jeff Hopkins
Just another...observer
We also had a European Herring Gull in PA a while back.
Except Cory's is found well beyond the AOS area, so unilaterally changing that would cause "conflicts."
This is an excuse of convenience. There's a valid argument to be made that Cory's should remain exclusively to refer to the C. diomedea complex sensu lato, the superspecies that contains Cory's/Scopoli's, and that maintaining Cory's for borealis is, in fact, the conflict.
Meanwhile, the AOS has lived in cheerful limbo with the Black-bellied/Grey Plover and American/Buff-bellied Pipit conflicts for decades without issue, and used the rigid daughter-name protocol to rid us of the fondly considered New-World-exclusive "Mew" Gull in place of the lame moniker Short-billed. Yet when faced with one of the first opportunities for an eponym to organically evaporate, as many have before it, the heels remain dug in. Sad to see.
Mysticete
Well-known member
Not sure the Short-billed Gull/Mew Gull situation is a good comparison for the Cory's shearwater situation. It seems like the shearwater is shared equally between Europe and North America. Short-billed Gulls obviously show up in Europe, but they are mostly a New World Species. It's one thing allowing the status quo to persist (Black-bellied and Gray Plover have a long history of use in their respective regions), it's another matter entirely to create a new name conflict between regions. Which is what would probably ensue as I don't see BOU or other relevant checklists adopting the Cory's name change.
Kirk Roth
Rarely to be taken seriously
The AOS has been accused of many things - but consistency is not one of them. Ever since the Canada/Cackling Goose split, I'm only surprised when nothing surprising happens.
pbjosh
missing the neotropics
In this case, although I am not a fan of eponyms, I think that both species are much more European birds than North American. As well they have a long precedence using those two names. To me it would have come across as a bit ridiculous to presume to change those names and, as pointed out, create a new name discrepancy.
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jurek
Well-known member
I hoped they will get rid of 'sand' in 'sand-plover'. Logically contradictory - anybody plows sand? Factually wrong - these birds are not especially fond of sand, nesting from tundra to clay areas. Unnecessary - it is completely sufficient to call them Greater, Tibetan and Siberian Plovers.
pbjosh
missing the neotropics
Again to me it would seem odd for a North American entity to propose to change the names of largely old-world birds…
James Jobling
Well-known member
To answer jurek #114, Plover has nothing to do with ploughing/plowing. It comes to us from a conjectured Late Latin (plovarius) and Norman French (plovier) as an onomatopoeia, but was corrupted to reflect a supposed association with rain (Latin pluvia rain < pluere to rain; see modern genus Pluvialis). Linnaeus himself wrote (1729: transl.), “They are called Regnpipare because they flock together and call before rain.”
The sand plovers are found on extensive tidal beaches on migration and in winter quarters. From their breeding grounds they could be called bog plovers, I suppose.
The sand plovers are found on extensive tidal beaches on migration and in winter quarters. From their breeding grounds they could be called bog plovers, I suppose.
jurek
Well-known member
Thanks for the explanation. In essence you mean that, since neither the whistling call resembles the English word 'plow' nor are they associated with rain, therefore both parts of the name 'sand-plover' are factually wrong...
James Jobling
Well-known member
I think you are missing the point here, jurek #117. It doesn’t matter what we think we know in our techno 21st century forever separated from the natural world around us. Plovier was based on onomatopoeia, the plover’s cry as heard and interpreted by Normans and Norsemen a thousand years ago — plō, plō, plō or lō, lō, lō. Your link with the American ‘plow’ is a false etymon and factually wrong. The association with rain is well documented, “Belon [1555] says the bird is so called because plovers are caught most easily in rainy weather … Charleton [17th cent.] because they haunt rain-soaked places; Littré [19th cent.] because they arrive in flocks in the rainy season; another authority … because some kinds of plover have markings on their upper plumage like rain-drops; another … because the birds foretell rain by their restlessness; while the German name Regenpfeifer (rain-piper) implies that the bird sings in the rain.” (Macleod, 1954, Key to the Names of British Birds, p. 42).
pbjosh
missing the neotropics
From my perspective, Plover only has one meaning. I didn't know the word before I learned about the bird. Plovers are defacto sort of self defining for most english speakers, I would guess. I've certainly never assumed / thought the word has another meaning.
Whether they're associated with sand or not... well almost all the Sand-Plovers I have seen have been wintering on what most people would call sand.
I've never looked at those names and thought there was anything wrong with them.
I can think of many more birds names that are clearly inaccurate (Killdeer have certainly never done what their name suggests) but more seriously:
Olive Warbler
Green Heron
Great Blue Heron
Purple Sandpiper
Green Sandpiper
Four-banded Sandgrouse
etc etc etc
Whether they're associated with sand or not... well almost all the Sand-Plovers I have seen have been wintering on what most people would call sand.
I've never looked at those names and thought there was anything wrong with them.
I can think of many more birds names that are clearly inaccurate (Killdeer have certainly never done what their name suggests) but more seriously:
Olive Warbler
Green Heron
Great Blue Heron
Purple Sandpiper
Green Sandpiper
Four-banded Sandgrouse
etc etc etc
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