Bino question - $1000 price point worth it? (2 Viewers)

[vkalia]

Hi all -

Posting here after a long time. I am presently in Brunei for a few months on some work, with pristine rainforest and exotic birds around me, but no binoculars (dont ask). So i am looking to fix this, and get out there on the field.

I want to get a pair of 10x42s (I have a pair of Zeiss FL 8x32s and Zen Ray 8x42s at home) for now, and was wondering which way to go.

I dont use 10x42 magnification that often, and so dont really see the point of spending $2000 for alpha glass for a pair. So i was thinking of getting a pair of Trinovids or Conquests shipped to me here.

And that got me thinking - is this price tier worth it, or would it be better to go with a pair of Zen Rays or Vortex binos at the $500 price point (or even Monarch 5s)? Or pay a little more and get a pair of Nikon HG Ls.

I realize there is a large element of "well, that really depends". But what do people think? For my part, I am happy to pay the extra amount if i get a Better Bino.

Side note: I enjoy birding with the Zen Rays and an older pair of Pentax 10x43s and honestly, I dont go around fussing over corner sharpness (the bird is never there).

 

[mfunnell]

From the sounds of things you're looking for a long-term purchase rather than a temporary expedient. If it were me looking for 10x42s under those circumstances I'd probably do just what you said - look at the Conquests or Trinovids. In fact, based on the Allbinos review and knowing I was having to take a punt by ordering remotely, I'd probably just pick the Conquests as being a pretty safe option.

...Mike

 

[[email protected]]

I would agree with mfunnell. Get a Zeiss Conquest HD 10x42.

 

[oldfortyfive]

Is $1000 price point worth it? As a practical matter no. Does it stop me....NO B

 

[jring]

Take your time and look hard at fleabay and the classifieds - an SE 10x42 will come up eventually. It will be less than $1000 and it will give a better view than the ones mentioned...

Joachim

 

[typo]

Hi Robin,

It sounds like you fully understand, the laws of diminishing returns, but there is also a premium to pay for the presteige names in my opinion. Yes the the likes of the Conquest HD and the new Trinovid HD are perfectly fine binoculars but to my eyes they are clearly second tier products and by no means the best that the Japanese can produce. There are models I personally prefer. The Vortex Razor HD, (particularly as the10x50), the Kite Bonelli 2.0, Kowa Genesis, Maven B2 to name a few. I would definitely include the Czech made Meopta Meostar HD as well. Generally these match, or even exceed some of the optical attributes of the alphas, but perhaps not tick every box. However these are generally over your $1000 budge and definitely mine as well.

I have a Chinese made ZenRay Prime and know the Hawke version of the EDIII well and in practical terms they do everything I need, (but not necessarily want ). I personally wouldn't trade up to the Conquest HD or Trinovid HD for optical reasons, but the engineering is probably better on those two, some some would favour the ergonomics and of course, there's the badges!

Curiously I don't see many models bridging the gap between the satisfactory mid tier, and the almost alpha list I started with. There are models from Opticron, Kite, Minox and I'm sure other US companies we don't see, that have some improved features, such as lighter, sharper, better CA etc.. but seemingly not many that are overall are obviously placed on that intermediate rung on the ladder.

I'm going to probably surprise a few and suggest the new Nikon Monarch HG as a possible. I'm not going to argue that it's optically better than some alternatives. There is CA, the edges could be sharper and maybe the colours richer, but if I was hiking the Brunei rain forest in 100% humidity I'm sure I'd really appreciate it's small size, light weight, wide view and easy handling.
http://www.nikon.com/news/2016/0714_monarch_hg_01.htm

Good luck,

David

 

[vkalia]

Thanks for the replies, all.

Also, i need something within a few days, and so do not have the luxury of waiting for the right deal on classifieds or elsewhere. Also, ordering for delivery here wasnt an option for a bunch of other reasons. So i needed something which would either be available in Kuala Lumpur, or get there by Tue, so that my SO could bring them over with her on Wednesday.

I considered the Nikon Monarchs as well as HG Ls, but neither would have been in stock for a while. Same for the Leica Trinovids. I just placed an order for Conquest 10x42 HDs. So all sorted. At some later point, i will splurge for a Leica Ultravid HD 10x42 and then i am good to go.

Appreciate the help!

 

[Binastro]

What's an SO?

Maybe I should get one.

 

[chartwell99]

Hi all -

Posting here after a long time. I am presently in Brunei for a few months on some work, with pristine rainforest and exotic birds around me, but no binoculars (dont ask). So i am looking to fix this, and get out there on the field.

I want to get a pair of 10x42s (I have a pair of Zeiss FL 8x32s and Zen Ray 8x42s at home) for now, and was wondering which way to go.

I dont use 10x42 magnification that often, and so dont really see the point of spending $2000 for alpha glass for a pair. So i was thinking of getting a pair of Trinovids or Conquests shipped to me here.

And that got me thinking - is this price tier worth it, or would it be better to go with a pair of Zen Rays or Vortex binos at the $500 price point (or even Monarch 5s)? Or pay a little more and get a pair of Nikon HG Ls.

I realize there is a large element of "well, that really depends". But what do people think? For my part, I am happy to pay the extra amount if i get a Better Bino.

Side note: I enjoy birding with the Zen Rays and an older pair of Pentax 10x43s and honestly, I dont go around fussing over corner sharpness (the bird is never there).

If you have someone to buy the binocular in the U.S. and ship it to you, I would strongly recommend the Maven B2 9 x 45. Slightly less magnification than a 10x, wide field, brilliant colors and astoundingly sharp. This model has been the most satisfying binocular purchase I have made in the last 30 years, and I continue to marvel at how good it is. Price is $1000 and totally worth it.

 

[[email protected]]

If you have someone to buy the binocular in the U.S. and ship it to you, I would strongly recommend the Maven B2 9 x 45. Slightly less magnification than a 10x, wide field, brilliant colors and astoundingly sharp. This model has been the most satisfying binocular purchase I have made in the last 30 years, and I continue to marvel at how good it is. Price is $1000 and totally worth it.

Chartwell. I know the direct marketed binoculars like the Maven's and the Trac's are some of the best binocular bargains now. How is the Maven B2 9x45 for glare? How sharp are the edges? How smooth is the focus and how is the focus speed? I am interested in this binocular and I would really appreciate it if you could comment on those areas. I know it is an excellent binocular. It scored very highly in the Outdoor Life review. The 5mm exit pupil sounds really nice.

 

[chartwell99]

Chartwell. I know the direct marketed binoculars like the Maven's and the Trac's are some of the best binocular bargains now. How is the Maven B2 9x45 for glare? How sharp are the edges? How smooth is the focus and how is the focus speed? I am interested in this binocular and I would really appreciate it if you could comment on those areas. I know it is an excellent binocular. It scored very highly in the Outdoor Life review. The 6mm exit pupil sounds really nice.

Steve C has reviewed this binocular with a good deal of specificity but for what their worth, my comments are: I have noticed no glare and I do a lot of late in the day hawk watching. The edges on my example are noticeably sharp, on a par with the Swaro SLC 10 x 42 and sharper than the Meopta 10 x 42 Meostar (also a very nice glass). Focus is smooth with no slop although effort is higher than most and very similar to my 8 x 30 Swaro porro. It was a little off-putting at first but I have gotten completely used to the focus effort now. Focus speed is perfect for me, very similar to the earlier generation 42mm Leica Trinovids. The Maven 9 x 45 is exceptionally bright, possibly as a result of the 6mm exit pupil but also possibly due to the inherent brightness advantage of the use of abbe koenig prisms. The ergonomics of the binocular are superb with wonderful balance in the hands. I don't wear glasses and can name a number of otherwise excellent binoculars which for me present objectionable blackouts. Thankfully, this is not among them. The sole problem I had with the Maven was the hopeless strap arrangement which I solved by deepsixing the supplied strap and buying a Vero Vellini strap. I also purchased and use the transparent lens filters for the obvious peace of mind. I hope that's helpful.

 

[[email protected]]

Steve C has reviewed this binocular with a good deal of specificity but for what their worth, my comments are: I have noticed no glare and I do a lot of late in the day hawk watching. The edges on my example are noticeably sharp, on a par with the Swaro SLC 10 x 42 and sharper than the Meopta 10 x 42 Meostar (also a very nice glass). Focus is smooth with no slop although effort is higher than most and very similar to my 8 x 30 Swaro porro. It was a little off-putting at first but I have gotten completely used to the focus effort now. Focus speed is perfect for me, very similar to the earlier generation 42mm Leica Trinovids. The Maven 9 x 45 is exceptionally bright, possibly as a result of the 6mm exit pupil but also possibly due to the inherent brightness advantage of the use of abbe koenig prisms. The ergonomics of the binocular are superb with wonderful balance in the hands. I don't wear glasses and can name a number of otherwise excellent binoculars which for me present objectionable blackouts. Thankfully, this is not among them. The sole problem I had with the Maven was the hopeless strap arrangement which I solved by deepsixing the supplied strap and buying a Vero Vellini strap. I also purchased and use the transparent lens filters for the obvious peace of mind. I hope that's helpful.

Very helpful. Thanks alot. I bet the 9x45 is really good in low light with the AK prisms. The 9x would be interesting. A little more reach than an 8x but not quite as much shake as a 10x. I like the Vero Vellini strap also. I use them quite often. I like the fact that it has sharp edges and a big AFOV of almost 65 degrees. The glare resistance sounds good also. There is no slop in the focus or in other words it engages as soon as you push it? Did you get a discount on it when you purchased it? I just bought a Trac Toric 8x42 and I really like it also. Again thanks for the information and it will be helpful to have those facts in his binocular purchase decision.

 

[etudiant]

My $0.02 is that new entrants such as Maven or Trac are going to force the alphas to up their game.
I don't know whether that will be to certify each glass individually or to provide some regular maintenance service, but absent the ability to actually innovate optically, they have to find some other point of differentiation.
Thus far, afaik, optical innovation is nil, as illustrated by the 'new' Leica Noctivid. That will not allow the current price structure to survive.
I believe that Zeiss is the most likely to offer something really new, they do not have a stable service based core such as Swarovski and they are wealthier than Leica or Nikon, so they have motivation and resources to do something new.
However, they need to be convinced that the investment would pay off. Unfortunately, neither the hunting fraternity nor the birding community are very receptive to innovation, so Zeiss will probably put its money elsewhere.

 

[Ontario]

My $0.02 is that new entrants such as Maven or Trac are going to force the alphas to up their game.
I don't know whether that will be to certify each glass individually or to provide some regular maintenance service, but absent the ability to actually innovate optically, they have to find some other point of differentiation.
Thus far, afaik, optical innovation is nil, as illustrated by the 'new' Leica Noctivid. That will not allow the current price structure to survive.
I believe that Zeiss is the most likely to offer something really new, they do not have a stable service based core such as Swarovski and they are wealthier than Leica or Nikon, so they have motivation and resources to do something new.
However, they need to be convinced that the investment would pay off. Unfortunately, neither the hunting fraternity nor the birding community are very receptive to innovation, so Zeiss will probably put its money elsewhere.

Checkout the Nikon prototype .. http://www.binomania.it/prototipi_nikon_superwide/

 

[etudiant]

Checkout the Nikon prototype .. http://www.binomania.it/prototipi_nikon_superwide/

While clearly not aimed at birders or hunters (IF and very heavy), it seems ideal for astronomers. A prestigious niche market for a halo Nikon product.
We can only hope that Nikon brings it into production.

 

[Ontario]

While clearly not aimed at birders or hunters (IF and very heavy), it seems ideal for astronomers. A prestigious niche market for a halo Nikon product.
We can only hope that Nikon brings it into production.

Optical innovation no less who knows someday the tech may grace the faces of birders or hunters in a miniaturized format.

 

[edwincjones]

back to your initial question

you have a < $500 pair and a $2000 pair (new)
so the $1000 pair would be in between

is the zen ray ok for your viewing?
is the zeiss more used and enjoyed?

my belief is to get the best optics you can reasonably afford
reasonably afford is a personal decision

edj

 

[mfunnell]

back to your initial question

Well, I think post #7 kind of tells us how the OP decided to go. Still some useful discussion in the thread, though.

...Mike

 

[vkalia]

What's an SO?

Maybe I should get one.

Significant Other. More than a girlfriend, not quite a wife. Highly recommended - in fact, I tried asking for another, but sadly, was rebuffed.

Chartwell99 - I did come across reviews of the Maven B2s. Unfortunately, getting something shipped to me to Brunei wasnt an option right now for a bunch of reasons. They do sound interesting and maybe I'll pick up a pair to try out at some point - I want an alpha pair of 8x42s (not 10x42s as typed by mistake in my earlier post), but 9x45s sound very interesting.

 

[chartwell99]

Very helpful. Thanks alot. I bet the 9x45 is really good in low light with the AK prisms. The 9x would be interesting. A little more reach than an 8x but not quite as much shake as a 10x. I like the Vero Vellini strap also. I use them quite often. I like the fact that it has sharp edges and a big AFOV of almost 65 degrees. The glare resistance sounds good also. There is no slop in the focus or in other words it engages as soon as you push it? Did you get a discount on it when you purchased it? I just bought a Trac Toric 8x42 and I really like it also. Again thanks for the information and it will be helpful to have those facts in his binocular purchase decision.

I did not receive a discount when I purchased my binocular although Maven now offers a demo program. As I understand it, under this program, you receive a demo with 2 weeks to try it. If you like the demo sent, you keep it and the cost is 10% off new ($900 for the 9 x 45), if you want a new one, you return the demo and pay full price. If you don't like the binocular, you return it at no cost. Sounds like a good deal to me. As to the focus, you are correct: the focus is changed immediately as the focus knob is moved.