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Choughs to be (re)introduced to Kent (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter lockbreeze926
- Start date
JWN Andrewes
Poor Judge of Pasta.
And one that, given the right conditions, will expand its range readily. They are now pretty routine on Great & Little Orme where they never used to be, and I've recently even seen them as far east and inland as Horseshoe Pass near Llangollen.
Entirely agree this !
Jon Turner
Well-known member
Ah well could be just gossip. I've seen Chough in Cornwall every year since they arrived on the Lizard.
jurek
Well-known member
Agreed, the release could be much cheaper and faster if wild Choughs were transplanted from the healthy population in Scotland, instead of raising zoo birds in aviaries.
Maybe bureaucracy and difficulty of getting a permission to catch wild Choughs made it impossible?
In reintroduction of animals, most successful are actually dreaded hunters. They simply transport small groups of freshly caught animals and let them loose. While some released groups die, number of attempts and simplicity trump specialist knowledge.
Maybe bureaucracy and difficulty of getting a permission to catch wild Choughs made it impossible?
In reintroduction of animals, most successful are actually dreaded hunters. They simply transport small groups of freshly caught animals and let them loose. While some released groups die, number of attempts and simplicity trump specialist knowledge.
Phil Andrews
It's only Rock and Roller but I like it
Just to back this up, news today of a record breaking breeding season for the Cornish Chough population with 112 young fledged.
Paul Penzance
Well-known member
All along the west cornish coast now. Had my biggest flock a week ago of at least 69! It all started with the 3 at Lizard point so one of the very few species doing well these days
I would agree the project is worthwhile for this alone.
JWN Andrewes
Poor Judge of Pasta.
Cheers Richard, good to get that perspective, makes a lot of sense.
I’m very much in agreement with Paul and others on this and reintroductions generally.
While they are generally thought of as sedentary my local (vale of Glamorgan) population has had ringed Anglesey birds turn up and then move on (or at least not be seen again but they are photographed quite regularly on local fb groups) and I’d imagine the ones paul mentions in Somerset came directly across the Bristol Channel rather than Cornwall. We get dispersing Somerset bitterns which have now started to breed near us so gwent/Glamorgan to and from Somerset seems viable for many birds. We even had wintering Cirl bunting last year in the vale and cirl have spread as far as Portland as breeders now.
The downside to natural spread is of course that we are talking about tiny populations of social birds in areas that have tons of unused good habitat. Choughs range quite a lot along the coast anyway but hitting saturation point in the current habitats will take a long time for a lot of species. Somerset has done it for herons but chough are a long way from it in Glamorgan. But they are spreading slowly naturally and numbers rising
While they are generally thought of as sedentary my local (vale of Glamorgan) population has had ringed Anglesey birds turn up and then move on (or at least not be seen again but they are photographed quite regularly on local fb groups) and I’d imagine the ones paul mentions in Somerset came directly across the Bristol Channel rather than Cornwall. We get dispersing Somerset bitterns which have now started to breed near us so gwent/Glamorgan to and from Somerset seems viable for many birds. We even had wintering Cirl bunting last year in the vale and cirl have spread as far as Portland as breeders now.
The downside to natural spread is of course that we are talking about tiny populations of social birds in areas that have tons of unused good habitat. Choughs range quite a lot along the coast anyway but hitting saturation point in the current habitats will take a long time for a lot of species. Somerset has done it for herons but chough are a long way from it in Glamorgan. But they are spreading slowly naturally and numbers rising
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Paul Chapman
Well-known member
Totally understand this. But that existing habitat restoration should already have been a priority for what is already there - much of which will be unknown due to a lack of systematic specialist biodiversity recording.
Conservation projects and organisations are "forced" to go to the high profile and specific funding projects to get the monies needed for habitat restoration and acquisition. I anticipate clearly the collateral benefits are what would persuade people to look at Black Grouse in Sussex for instance despite the lack of success of such projects with that species elsewhere.
I just feel that by doing that dance you effectively perpetuate a system that should have different priorities.
I am involved in a restoration/rewilding project doing a bit of moth monitoring and when individuals see such funding options below, eyes light up and my heart sinks....
What you need to know about the Species Recovery Programme Capital Grant scheme
Update: From 3rd April 2023, applications will be made through the Atamis platform. Applicants must register to the Atamis platform before an application can be made. For further information and application see the Atamis landing page: Welcome (force.com) The SRPCGS …
It also of course encourages rogue and ill-informed releases from individuals who cannot understand the difference.
All the best
Paul
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davewalters
Well-known member
To be fair they bred there in my day, late 80's. I seem to remember the first pair at the Little Orme had been rung on the Isle of Man.
Just to add to the main topic - complete waste of time and money. Another saddos vanity project.
jurek
Well-known member
Define readily. Choughs have been absent in Kent for over 200 years.
John Cantelo
Well-known member
Whilst it's the case that Chough appears on Canterbury's coat of arms, they're there not because they occurred locally but because they were connected to Thomas a Becket who was famously murdered in the cathedral. Consequently, in heraldry, they're called ' beckits'. There's a reference to Choughs being present around the Dover cliffs in King Lear (Act IV Scene 6). Unfortunately, there's some confusion about when they died out in the county. According to Ticehurst birds breeding there after 1776 were derived from released birds but these became extinct in 1840 or 1850. In the early 1800s, they were still widespread along the south coast breeding in Sussex (last bred at Beachy Head in c1830), IoW, Purbeck and further west. Around the same time, there was also a population across the Channel in France. Hence the Kent population, if we ignore Ticehurst's reservations, died out when there was a much larger population to sustain it relatively nearby (albeit one under pressure).
To be honest, like pretty much all the Kent birders I know, I view this project as a mistaken one and, despite efforts to restore habitats locally, the area is probably too small to sustain a long-term population. Of course, it'd be pleasant to see Choughs over the White Cliffs but, in my view, the money would be far better spent creating suitable habitats in Devon, Dorset, IoW and on into Sussex to encourage the natural expansion ultimately into Kent (aided, if necessary, with judicious introductions further west close enough to attract wild birds to prepared habitats).
To be honest, like pretty much all the Kent birders I know, I view this project as a mistaken one and, despite efforts to restore habitats locally, the area is probably too small to sustain a long-term population. Of course, it'd be pleasant to see Choughs over the White Cliffs but, in my view, the money would be far better spent creating suitable habitats in Devon, Dorset, IoW and on into Sussex to encourage the natural expansion ultimately into Kent (aided, if necessary, with judicious introductions further west close enough to attract wild birds to prepared habitats).
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Original PaulE
Well-known member
Yes it does seem a bit isolated from other populations!
Farnboro John
Well-known member
Hotspur
James Spencer
Great Orme even easier and closer tbh.
