eBird uploading recordings which contain multiple species (1 Viewer)

[Thegeezer9999]

I am conscious that the instructions Cornell give on uploading recordings, whilst advising not to just upload an edited version containing only your bird, there is no guidance on uploading a recording which could say have 3 rare birds in the same recording. Are you supposed to upload the same recording 3 times (one for each bird species), or are you supposed to edit the recording into 3 separate recordings containing only the bird of interest in each case ? Also, are you supposed to indicate time point in a recording where your chosen bird can be found, or allow people to wade through and identify this for themselves ?

Apologies if these are obvious, and thank you to everyone who responds.

 

[nartreb]

I have no authority at eBird and don't even use it very much, but I found this:

From Add photos and sounds in eBird :

Multiple species in the same image or recording​

Each media asset must be uploaded to only one species, but you can use the Additional Species field in Manage Media to tag other species present in the media. Note that an additional species can only be selected if it is also reported on the checklist to which you’re uploading media. If you have photos emphasizing different species in the group, upload these to different species as you see fit. Uploading identical photographs or recordings to two or more different species is not encouraged.

(Emphasis added by me.)

My interpretation: Nobody's going to punish you for doing things as you see fit, but if you want to be helpful, an uploaded recording should be clearly matched to one species. Edit it to remove the sounds of other species, if that can be done without distorting the sound or the timing. Make different edits for different species. If two or more species are calling over each other in a way that's difficult to separate, that's probably not a very good recording. However, even a very poor recording might be worth uploading when the recording is evidence of a rare sighting (and the photographic evidence, if any, might not be sufficient to establish the ID).

Edit: I also found this:
(from Preparing sound recordings for upload to eBird and the Macaulay Library )

If a recording contains multiple species that are loud and prominent, particularly rare, or otherwise interesting, the same recording can be uploaded for multiple species. However, the recording should be trimmed and normalized differently depending on the primary subject. If additional species are prominent in the background, they should be listed using Additional Species in Manage Media.

PS You say you read somewhere on the cornell site

advising not to just upload an edited version containing only your bird

but I cannot find this; rather the opposite.

 

[johnallcock]

Is this a long recording (eg from a passive acoustic recording device)?
In that case, it would definitely be worth trimming the recording to include only the species of interest (maybe with a few seconds before & after) and only uploading that section for each species. If there are multiple species you could do this separately for each species, even if they come from the same original recording. I think it's better not to upload long recordings when the species of interest only calls briefly, but if you do it would definitely be worth providing a comment about the time of the call.

If it's a shorter recording with multiple species calling at once that's a bit trickier but it may help to edit it to highlight the species of interest (eg to filter out background noise from other species) or to make a comment to help people locate that species among the other calls.

 

[TicoTyler]

I actually got a response from someone at Cornell on the eBird FB page asking about this. You should trim the recordings to remove handling noise, normalize to -3 dB, etc. But if it's a situation where say two species are calling at the same time you would upload the recording to both species. It's up to your judgement. Ideally, you edit a long audio into distinct species but when they are vocalizing at the same time that's how to handle it.

 

[njlarsen]

One of the values of recordings is the time span between two copies of song (or even more) from the same species. If there is another species in between it is better to keep the flow intact and enter the other species name into the comments.
Niels

 

[TicoTyler]

One of the values of recordings is the time span between two copies of song (or even more) from the same species. If there is another species in between it is better to keep the flow intact and enter the other species name into the comments.
Niels

There's actually a feature, now moved to the top, to indicate other species on the recording. No need to type out a comment even. A few people I know working on Sound ID annotation told me it's actually really important to add that data when it's present.

 

[Thegeezer9999]

OK so what I have taken from all this :-

If there is only one instance of the call, edit file to include only this.
If there are calls separated by other bird calls, edit the file to include both bird calls and the bird calls in between. Use the additional species field to state the additional birds (these must also be included in the same Checklist).
If there are multiple calls, include the other birds in the additional birds, add a note to state at what point the primary species call starts (and ends if unclear).
If it might be difficult to find the call, add a note to state at what point the primary species call starts (and ends if unclear).

Don't upload a long media file in which the call of interest is somewhere towards the middle or even end of the recording.

Is that about right ?

 

[TicoTyler]

OK so what I have taken from all this :-

If there is only one instance of the call, edit file to include only this.
If there are calls separated by other bird calls, edit the file to include both bird calls and the bird calls in between. Use the additional species field to state the additional birds (these must also be included in the same Checklist).
If there are multiple calls, include the other birds in the additional birds, add a note to state at what point the primary species call starts (and ends if unclear).
If it might be difficult to find the call, add a note to state at what point the primary species call starts (and ends if unclear).

Don't upload a long media file in which the call of interest is somewhere towards the middle or even end of the recording.

Is that about right ?

Also as a general rule the listed bird vocalization should begin three seconds in to the recording. Not always possible but when trimming the recording that's what to shoot for.

 

[Thegeezer9999]

Also as a general rule the listed bird vocalization should begin three seconds in to the recording. Not always possible but when trimming the recording that's what to shoot for.

Yep, I always do the normalisation followed by 3 sec silence at start and end

 

[Thegeezer9999]

There's actually a feature, now moved to the top, to indicate other species on the recording. No need to type out a comment even. A few people I know working on Sound ID annotation told me it's actually really important to add that data when it's present.

I could not find this feature so added additional species in the comments.

 

[TicoTyler]

I could not find this feature so added additional species in the comments.

They just moved it again. They had moved it to the first spot, now it's the second below Media Notes. You select the species from that list to associate as background species:

 

[Thegeezer9999]

Still unable to find this feature Tic ? Please check my own screenshots

 

[DMW]

There's actually a feature, now moved to the top, to indicate other species on the recording. No need to type out a comment even. A few people I know working on Sound ID annotation told me it's actually really important to add that data when it's present.

I can only imagine how difficult it is to create sound ID algorithms that work when more than one species is vocalising at the same time. We've got stereo hearing which allows us to distinguish multiple sources, but for a mono phone app it must be nightmarish.

 

[Thegeezer9999]

I think the point here is that they are not necessarily vocalising concurrently, it is more that you have multiple species who happen to annoyingly be on the same recording!!

 

[njlarsen]

Ebird has a functionality in beta that will allow for upload of soundscapes, that might be a place where a recording could go if it truly has multiple species singing concurrently.
Niels

 

[TicoTyler]

I can only imagine how difficult it is to create sound ID algorithms that work when more than one species is vocalising at the same time. We've got stereo hearing which allows us to distinguish multiple sources, but for a mono phone app it must be nightmarish.

It actually works visually rather than by sound but yes I'm sure concurrent sounds must throw it off. It converts the sound to a waveform and uses pattern recognition to identify by the shape of the waveform.