European Blue Butterflies for ID (4 Viewers)

[balkantrek]

Gavia's excellent thread 'ID Tips for Blue Butterflies' is deservedly generating a lot of interest:
http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=143959

I am sure it will encourage a lot of other forum members to start taking a more careful look at the blue butterflies they see and photograph. It has certainly rekindled my interest in them, and got me going through some of my own photos and trying to identify butterflies that I had simply given up as 'bewildering blues'!

Rather than hijack Gavia's informative thread by posting some of my own as yet unidentified blues there for identification, I thought it might be a good idea to open another thread alongside Gavia's where 'mystery blues' awaiting identification could be posted, and we could help each other try and determine what they are, and just as importantly from an educational point of view, highlight the reasons why they are what they are! |=)|

Furthermore, this will serve as some good 'homework' and study whilst we await Gavia next chapters of the 'ID Guide'!

So here are my first blues for identification and discussion:

Photo 1: Mystery - black marginal spots seem unusually large

Photo 2: Some species of Short-tailed Blue perhaps, damaged to rear of butterfly doesn't help

Photo 3: Maybe a Blue Argus or Brown Argus

 

[Gavia_immer]

First of all, thanks a lot for your kind words, Balkantrek. I truely appreciate it and all the effort is worth when I see somebody (like you) has developped such enthusiasm and interest for the maddening blue creatures.

I love the idea of this new thread. It will be a great complement to the other one.

Rather than hijack Gavia's informative thread by posting some of my own as yet unidentified blues there for identification, I thought it might be a good idea to open another thread alongside Gavia's where 'mystery blues' awaiting identification could be posted, and we could help each other try and determine what they are, and just as importantly from an educational point of view, highlight the reasons why they are what they are! |=)|

That is the way to do it. Most of us tend to say what we think a mistery bird/butterfly is but don't give reasons for it. That doesn't help to learn. That is another reason why I started the ID thread.

I will start my discussion with Mistery Blue 1. I think it belongs to genus Plebejus. Although I cannot see if there is a cell spot, those big marginal black spots are typical of worn out Plebejus. It is important to know when (month) it was taken. That will help to decide which species it is. Plebejus Blues can be very tricky specially in your area.

Mistery Blue 2. Do you have another shot of the underwing? I have 2-3 options but need another shot where I can see better the position of the black dots of the underwing.

Mistery Blue 3. I don't think it is an Argus. Both Blue and Brown Argus have the typical double offset spots on the underwing that your butterfly lacks. Plus I think I can see a hint of the 'dreaded' cell spot which, united to the not chequered edges indicates that most likeky it is a Common Blue. What made you rule out Common Blue? Probably I am missing something as I didn't see your Butterfly in the wild. Sorry if I disappoint you with this one.

 

[Gavia_immer]

Balkantrek,

the more I look at your mistery butterfly n.2, the more convinced I am that it is an Iolas Blue (Iolana iolas). I would need a better angled shot of the underwing to be 100% sure, but the combination of white edges, bright blue upperside and the characteristic series of grey spots across both wings leave scarse doubt of what it is. Only the position of some of the black spots on the underwing seem a bit odd for Iolas Blue, but it might be due to the angle. We will see what others think.

 

[madamcoolpix]

WOW!!! o Both of you, Balkantrek and Gavia, deserve a medal each for your brilliant ideas!!! :loveme:

I foresee loads of fun in “Butterflies for ID” section of this Forum in the following weeks!!! o

Here they go my opinions:

Mystery Blue 1: At first sight, I’d say it’s a very worn Silver-studded Blue (Plebejus argus). For me, no doubt about a Plebejus because of the shape of the orange spots, and Plebejus argus because of the big dark areas where the silvery spots should be if it was not so wretched. I’ve seen many “ragged” Silver-studded Blues and looked like this one. We can’t see the well known spine in the fore-tibia but I don’t think that’s a feature easy to see.

Still I’ve considered the Idas Blue, but I think the orangish areas should be much more extended (at least in my experience). In Bulgary you have too the Reverdin’s Blue (Plebejus argyrognomon) but even if I have no experience at all with that, it doesn’t seem to suit at all your Butterfly.

Mystery Blue 2: I don’t think it’s Iolas Blue. I don’t have experience with that one but I have the impression by pics in the Net that the black spots are always very round and the distribution of black spots in the underwing in wrong for the Iolas Blue. Another point: this Butterfly seems to be “very marked” for a Iolas, all the markings seem to be very faint in Iolas Blue.

Sorry, Gavia! You look so convinced! But mine is only an opinion on a Butterfly I’m not familiar with.

But nothing seems to suit clearly this specimen!!! :eek!: Maybe I talk nonsense but… what about a worn Amanda’s Blue, which has lost the scarce orange markings?

Mystery Blue 3: If it is not a Common Blue, I have no idea what else it can be… I don’t see a reason why it shouldn’t be (I can see a hint of the cell spot, like Gavia).

Hope I’ve made clear my ideas… a lot of typing! |=)|

 

[Gavia_immer]

Mystery Blue 2: I don’t think it’s Iolas Blue. I don’t have experience with that one but I have the impression by pics in the Net that the black spots are always very round and the distribution of black spots in the underwing in wrong for the Iolas Blue. Another point: this Butterfly seems to be “very marked” for a Iolas, all the markings seem to be very faint in Iolas Blue.

Sorry, Gavia! You look so convinced! But mine is only an opinion on a Butterfly I’m not familiar with.

But nothing seems to suit clearly this specimen!!! :eek!: Maybe I talk nonsense but… what about a worn Amanda’s Blue, which has lost the scarce orange markings?

If I have to be enterely sincere, I don't have experience on that one either :-O

Well, I have had another look at my files and I have to admit that I am not so sure now. Madamcoolpix is right and the black spots on the underside are totally wrong for Iolas.

The good news: I have searched throughly through my books and after deep thought :brains: I think I know what it is! :king: What about Meleager's Blue (Meleageria daphnis)? It suits to perfection. The best ID tip is hidden due to the angle but I think it can be seen a bit of the pointed end of the hindwing. Plus it had the white edges, deep blue upperside and the underwing marks look just right!

Here there are a few links to pics in the internet that I think are revelatory:

http://www.hlasek.com/foto/polyommatus_daphnis_al1655.jpg

http://www.northamptonshirewildlife.co.uk/images/meleagersblue.jpg

What do you think, folks?

 

[madamcoolpix]

o That makes sense, Gavia, I had noticed the odd shape in the hindwing corner and considered the Meleager's Blue but stupidly ruled it out because in my book the blue hue didn't seem to match and the black border seems too wide in the illustration too! I should have checked some pics before ruling it out!

This answer convences me quite well! :t:

Any other opinion?

 

[balkantrek]

You both just beat me to it! I have been going through my ID books and that's exactly what I have come up with too! Excellent it looks like we have come to unanimous agreement on Photo2!

 

[Gavia_immer]

That is great Balkantrek! :t: But what about N.1 and N.3? I am a bit puzzled with pic 1. I would go for Silver-studded too but mainly because I have tried very hard to see in it one of the other Plebejus species with no luck. The thing is that your butterfly is too worn. I even tried to see Zephyr Blue but I cannot find definitive ID tips for the subspecies sephirus which would be the form found in Bulgaria.

What is your thought?

 

[balkantrek]

So let me give you some more information about Photo 1

It is important to know when (month) it was taken. That will help to decide which species it is. Plebejus Blues can be very tricky specially in your area.

You are right Gavia, it is always helpful if one gives full background information about when and where a butterfly was recorded. This photo was taken in early-August on a small woodland glade in a forest of Picea abies & Pinus sylvestris at an altitude of 1415m.

We all seem to be agreed that this is a Plebejus species.

I was originally tempted by the idea of Zephyr Blue (Plebejus pylaon), because it seemed to 'resemble' another photo I saw in a book, but after much thought and rechecking I have gone off this idea. However, Lafranchis in his 'Butterflies of Europe' does comment that some specimens in Greece have very rarely one or two black marginal spots with shining blue-green pupils. And there is definately one blue pupil visible in my picture.

Reverdin's Blue (Plebejus argyrognomon) has a complete series of orange spots up to forewing apex, but these appear to be absent in my specimen, so I ruled out this, although of course they could have just been faded out.

I suppose, therefore, Silver-studded Blue (Plebejus argus) would seem to be the most likely.

 

[Gavia_immer]

You are right Gavia, it is always helpful if one gives full background information about when and where a butterfly was recorded. This photo was taken in early-August on a small woodland glade in a forest of Picea abies & Pinus sylvestris at an altitude of 1415m.

Well, in this case it seems to be great information :t: If my books are right, Zephyr Blue is an early flier of May and June. Early August would be definitively too late for it. That should rule out Zephyr Blue.

Both Reverdin's and Idas have the complete series of orange spots giving a look of an 'orange band' which yours doesn't have.

I think at this point we all agree then that N.1 is a Silver-studded Blue, which, as you said, is the most likely to be. :t:

And what is your thought on the 3rd one?

 

[balkantrek]

I have now looked again at Photo 3 and yes, my original ideas of an Argus have had to be ruled out. I jumped into the middle of the keys without working my way through from the beginning, so failed to consider the important un-chequered fringes of my specimen.|:$|

I also missed the crucial 'Common Blue cell-spot'. Although not immediately visible in my photo, a closer look reveals that there is a tiny hint that it is indeed present.

So identification confirmed Common Blue (Polyommatus icarus) it is!

Presumably therefore, this is too:

 

[Gavia_immer]

No, it isn't a Common Blue in spite of the cell spot. In fact it isn't a Blue but a Copper. It is a Sooty Copper (Lycaena tityrus), which looks a bit like the Polyommatus Blues from the underside. When I first saw your pic I thought 'What on earth is this? I know that image but it doesn't suits any Blue I know' And suddenly I realised it isn't a Blue but the only Copper that can be confused with a Blue.

Pay attention to the black dots, don't follow the pattern of the Blues and certainly not the one of Common Blue. If you could see the upperwing, it is different to that of any Blue or Argus. It is a bit similar to a Brown Argus but with black dots all over the upperwing.

Hope this won't discourage you

 

[balkantrek]

Hope this won't discourage you

Not at all, just makes it all the more a fascinating challenge and goes to show that nothing must be taken at first sight. Its like being a detective, all the clues and evidence have to be collected before one makes any judgement. Its why these threads are so useful, they really start to make one look more carefully and in detail!

 

[Gavia_immer]

Not at all, just makes it all the more a fascinating challenge and goes to show that nothing must be taken at first sight. Its like being a detective, all the clues and evidence have to be collected before one makes any judgement. Its why these threads are so useful, they really start to make one look more carefully and in detail!

Beautifully said, Balkantrek! So happy to see you think that way! |=)|

 

[balkantrek]

So far I have been very much concentrating on studying the underside of blues and trying to get used to carefully checking differences in 'lunules' and 'ocelli' etc.

But what about the uppersides? What clues can we gain from these?: chequered fringes, black spots, width of black borders etc

So here are a few more photos, this time of uppersides. Can we tell anything significant from what we can see here:

Photo 1: end of July (c.1200m)

Photo 2: mid-July (c.1500m)

Photo 3: mid-June (c.1400m)

Photo 4: end-May (c.1000m)

Photo 5: end-May (c.1200m)

 

[madamcoolpix]

This is an interesting quiz, Balkantrek!!!! o

I think something can be said in some cases but I need a careful study.

I hope you have the undersides to verify after our guessing if we got some of our "detective work" right!

I have to leave for work now but sure tonight I'll do my best to give an answer to all your stuff!

See you then! :hi:

 

[madamcoolpix]

Well, here I am finally! :t:

And here you have my opinions:

Photo 1: Difficult (almost no features), and to make the thing complete very ragged! :eek!: But it seems clear it has white fringes, and by the Blue hue I'd say it might be a Common Blue. Besides, some dots on the underwing can be seen and I'd say I see the spot in the cell... or maybe I want to see it becuase I feel it is a Common Blue?

Photo 2: Easy, I think. On the ground, in July, with bright Blue and so wide dark borders I'd say it's a Silver-studded Blue. I don't know if in Bulgaria can be something else.

Photo 3: No idea! :eek!: I've checked in my books and with that dark border and that kind of blue hue, it might be the False Eros Blue. You have it in Blugaria but we don't and I have no experience. Probably I have this completely wrong.

Photo 4 and 5: for me they are the same, and with that bold checkered fringe and that bright blue it might be Adonis Blue. But ours don't hay those faint black spots in the hindwing, so it might be another species.

Looking forwards to hearing more opinions! o

 

[balkantrek]

Thanks for you comments and suggestions Marian. I am afraid to say that I don't have underside shots of these particular specimens to confirm or refute or suspicions. So unfortunately their true identity may be impossible to confirm with certainty.

Photo 4 & 5: I also believe to be Adonis Blue. As far as I am aware there is variation in whether or not there are faint black spots on the hindwing.

Photo 2: Silver-studded Blue is what I think for this photo.

Photo 1: It is hard to be sure because the specimen is faded and worn. Common Blue seems the most likely candidate, but I did also consider faded examples of Escher's Blue and Turquoise Blue.

Photo 3: I am still assessing!

 

[Gavia_immer]

Hi, guys!

I agree with you both on pics 2, 4 and 5. There are several possibilities for pic 1 (it is too worn to be sure) but as you said, Common Blue is the most likely one. I don't think Escher's (next chapter of my thread and almost ready ) and Turquoise Blues are good candidates as they are bright sky blue colour. Even if they are faded they shouldn't look like the one in the pic. But of course, this is just a thought. I might be completely wrong.

As for N. 3, I don't know what it is but I can tell you for sure what it isn't! :-O This is one that requires good discussion. At least, all the Lysandra species are ruled out as the white edges are very evident. Good thing it is in pristine condition! :t: Must give another thought to that pic.

Rodopi Mountains seem to be a great place for butterflies! You lucky man, Balkantrek!

 

[balkantrek]

There are several possibilities for pic 1 (it is too worn to be sure) but as you said, Common Blue is the most likely one.

I have attached two new photos of specimens that resemble our mystery photo 1. Do you think they are the same species? Do they help to shed any new light on the subject?

As for N. 3, I don't know what it is but I can tell you for sure what it isn't! :-O This is one that requires good discussion. At least, all the Lysandra species are ruled out as the white edges are very evident. Good thing it is in pristine condition! :t: Must give another thought to that pic.

I also have a new photo from last week that may possibly be the same as mystery photo 3. Do you think it is? What do you think about Mazerine Blue (Cyaniris semiargus) as a possible contender for these two?

Rodopi Mountains seem to be a great place for butterflies! You lucky man, Balkantrek!

The biodiversity of the Rodopi Mountains is outstanding in all ways. In the past I have focused most of my researches on the birds, reptiles, amphibians and flora, but I am now turning my attention to the butterflies.