Faulty? Or not? (1 Viewer)

[pppppvvvv]

Hi all,
I've just had an unexpected experience with a UK optics retailer.
I purchased a conquest 10x32, new, (edit: online, delivered to me) which had a focus wheel that was fine in one direction, but when changing to the opposite direction would go loose for a short spell then click, then be fine.
Returning in the opposite direction had no such play, or click.
The click was audible across my living room.

The retailer is saying that they have checked the binoculars and this is as they would expect for conquests.

Is that true? Is it acceptable for a loose play and click in the focus in one direction? Should I have been less critical in writing them off as faulty?

 

[exup]

Hmm...

Zeiss Conquest HD 10x42 nightmare

My story begins a few years ago when I bought my first binoculars from Zeiss, the Conquest HD model in 10x42. I received the binoculars at home from a very respected dealer in Europe, but unfortunately, the focus wheel was unusable and also decollimated. I returned it and received another one...

www.birdforum.net

 

[pppppvvvv]

Yes, that thread sounds extreme, 5 in a row.

To be clear, I'm querying whether different behaviour in the focus wheel, depending on the direction is genuinely a fault. Or am I nitpicking?

The company has refunded me; and covered the return postage, "on this occasion out of goodwill".
But they have stated there is no fault, and if it were to happen again, I'd have to pay for the return postage.
Basically I interpret that as, "don't shop with us again, you are too critical of the binoculars. You should expect minor inconsistencies or quirks in the focussing". And if I got 5 faulty ones in a row, it'd cost me £80 in return postage.

 

[Ted Y.]

Maybe this is the new 'normal' for this model. Maybe not. If this model is a 'must', you can ask for another sample. From another shop, eventually.
If it has the same behavior and you decide to return it, you lose the £££ but you can buy another model/brand without regrets.

 

[pppppvvvv]

Maybe this is new 'normal' for this model. Maybe not.

That's what I'm asking yes.

Would seem strange. In all my life, I've never had any binocular that behaves like that.

Plus if it's normal, I'd expect to read about this in at least one of the many reviews, as opposed to "smooth precise focus".

My Conclusion.. It shouldn't be accepted as normal. It's unpredictable as opposed to precise.

 

[exup]

Three quarters of my bins costs less than than a Conquest and I would not accept a bad focus wheel like this.

The only occasion I have accepted a similar defect was when I bought a new Canon 18x50 and it had a millimetre of focus wheel slack ....... I negotiated a very large discount (can't remember exactly maybe ~50%?) and kept it. Works fine and as it is mostly for skywatching, it stays at infinity anyway.

 

[PYRTLE]

I think you need to request another pair or a full refund. If you stay with the " faulty " pair, there will always be a niggle in the back of your mind. Find something you are comfortable with.
I'm aware my Zeiss SF has a fast focus system but it does not operate in the manner as your Conguests

 

[pppppvvvv]

I think you need to request another pair or a full refund. If you stay with the " faulty " pair, there will always be a niggle in the back of your mind. Find something you are comfortable with.
I'm away my Zeiss SF has a fast focus system but it does not operate in the manner as your Conguests

They have refunded me. It's post no 3 above I'm trying to understand better. They basically said, those binoculars are fine. If you reject another pair for the same reason, you'll have to pay to send them back. Effectively saying I'm in the wrong for returning them . That's my perception anyway.
And it's no big deal, except I can't use that particular shop again, as there is now added cost if I need to return, like the 5 dodgy pairs in the other thread.

 

[Maljunulo]

I wonder what the probability of getting five (randomly selected) items from a manufacturer with the same defect is.

My guess is that it is vanishingly small.

 

[exup]

They have refunded me. It's post no 3 above I'm trying to understand better. They basically said, those binoculars are fine. If you reject another pair for the same reason, you'll have to pay to send them back. Effectively saying I'm in the wrong for returning them . That's my perception anyway.
And it's no big deal, except I can't use that particular shop again, as there is now added cost if I need to return, like the 5 dodgy pairs in the other thread.

Your are in the UK, so as far as I know you are covered by the Sale of Goods Act and Distance Selling Regulations, so they are legally obliged to refund you if you reject them as defective. A seller who takes this approach would never be used by me again .... who is it?

Premium priced products should be "perfect" with little argument over what is an acceptable standard. Zeiss Conquest bins are not entry level or the bottom end of the market.

 

[pppppvvvv]

Your are in the UK, so as far as I know you are covered by the Sale of Goods Act and Distance Selling Regulations, so they are legally obliged to refund you if you reject them as defective. A seller who takes this approach would never be used by me again .... who is it?

Premium priced products should be "perfect" with little argument over what is an acceptable standard. Zeiss Conquest bins are not entry level or the bottom end of the market.

Hi, yes they have refunded me, and refunded my return post costs, on this occasion, whilst stressing to me that refunding the post is a one off, and the binoculars aren't faulty. In future I wouldn't get return postage refunded, if the same scenario repeated.

I'm deliberately not naming the company, as I'm not out of pocket or anything, I just won't use them again. And if anyone else had the same experience, then they would also not be out of pocket, and presumably wouldn't use them subsequently.

I just wondered if I was being unfair, returning them! It seems from replies that I'm not being overly harsh.
Alternatively, they could have admitted the focus issue, and kept me as a customer.

 

[MiddleRiver]

Hi all,
I've just had an unexpected experience with a UK optics retailer.
I purchased a conquest 10x32, new, (edit: online, delivered to me) which had a focus wheel that was fine in one direction, but when changing to the opposite direction would go loose for a short spell then click, then be fine.
Returning in the opposite direction had no such play, or click.
The click was audible across my living room.

The retailer is saying that they have checked the binoculars and this is as they would expect for conquests.

Is that true? Is it acceptable for a loose play and click in the focus in one direction? Should I have been less critical in writing them off as faulty?

If your description is accurate, I'd call Zeiss and discuss it and I would ask to speak with senior mgr at shop or owner. I cannot imagine anyone saying this is 'normal'.

 

[exup]

Hi, yes they have refunded me, and refunded my return post costs, on this occasion, whilst stressing to me that refunding the post is a one off, and the binoculars aren't faulty. In future I wouldn't get return postage refunded, if the same scenario repeated.

I'm deliberately not naming the company, as I'm not out of pocket or anything, I just won't use them again. And if anyone else had the same experience, then they would also not be out of pocket, and presumably wouldn't use them subsequently.

I just wondered if I was being unfair, returning them! It seems from replies that I'm not being overly harsh.
Alternatively, they could have admitted the focus issue, and kept me as a customer.

From what you describe they are possibly breaking the law trying to change your legal rights. You claim they are faulty AND you have 14 days to reject due to distance selling (additional rights). The liability is with them for defective goods that were sold remotely. Buying in person in a bricks and mortar shop would still mean you have 'faulty' rights, but not the Distance Regs rights. Your legal contract is with the seller, not the manufacturer when first sold.

They sound like a dodgy bunch to me ..... nobody called Arthur Daley, is there?

 

[PYRTLE]

Hi Peter,
I didn't read your post thoroughly.....good to know you're not out of pocket. And diplomatic to keep their name out of the thread, most considerate whilst certainly not unfair of you at all. End of the day, they've lost your present and future custom for being " difficult " with you.

 

[Binastro]

If accurately described the binocular is faulty.

Regards,
B.

 

[pppppvvvv]

If accurately described the binocular is faulty.

Regards,
B.

Cheers everyone.
Looking at the "if accurately described" comments, and the response from the shop:
There is something I never even considered at the time, but wish I had done in this case. I could have videoed the click as the focus wheel moved. That would have been quite easy to record. That's something worth considering in the event of any faults that can be recorded.

I'm sure myself, and others will be down this path again with online sales. I need to be a more "intelligent" buyer in future, which is strange as I'm usually good at anticipating what can go wrong, and covering my behind!.

 

[Ted Y.]

I could have videoed the click as the focus wheel moved.

Good idea, indeed.

 

[seawatcher]

Good idea, indeed.

And maybe published the serial number on this website, as I bet the seller tries to resell them as they say they are not faulty (but obviously are).

 

[exup]

Cheers everyone.
Looking at the "if accurately described" comments, and the response from the shop:
There is something I never even considered at the time, but wish I had done in this case. I could have videoed the click as the focus wheel moved. That would have been quite easy to record. That's something worth considering in the event of any faults that can be recorded.

I'm sure myself, and others will be down this path again with online sales. I need to be a more "intelligent" buyer in future, which is strange as I'm usually good at anticipating what can go wrong, and covering my behind!.

Maybe the more acute issue is why are costly premium binoculars from a brand that is lauded, displays repeated defects in focusers.

Customers would not be expected to catch quality escapes at this end of the market.

It's up to the seller and the manufacturer to sort out the defect, for the customer.

 

[PatR]

Cheers everyone.
Looking at the "if accurately described" comments, and the response from the shop:
There is something I never even considered at the time, but wish I had done in this case. I could have videoed the click as the focus wheel moved. That would have been quite easy to record. That's something worth considering in the event of any faults that can be recorded.

I'm sure myself, and others will be down this path again with online sales. I need to be a more "intelligent" buyer in future, which is strange as I'm usually good at anticipating what can go wrong, and covering my behind!.

CYA at all times Peter!

Been there and sadly got the T Shirt early on which taught me a salutory lesson. As a result of that encounter with a very well known luxury watch dealer I started to video and photograph everything. Especially as you know that any faults will be dismissed as 'that's normal or within specification Sir.' Which is dealer speak for 'run along little man and mind the door on the way out'.

I had a particulary amusing encounter with my Dealer and my brand spanking new 'The Best 4x4xFar'.

It had so many faults which they dismissed or attempted to put down to user error. Until I showed them the film I had made on my laptop over 6 months worth of visits....... and which was going on Facebook that very night.

Oh how we laughed as they phoned the decision makers and my POS was bought back.

Illegitimi non carborundum!

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