Feeling frustrated!! (1 Viewer)

[CathyMichiganBirds]

So I thought Vortex was supposed to be a good quality binocular, so I got both the 8x42 Vortex Diamondback and the 10x42 Vortex Viper to test out. Was outside later in day, weather was gloomy and cloudy. I was focusing on birds in a tree high up with binoculars focused on birds/tree branches with somewhat bright cloudy sky in background and I noticed that the image of bird was not as sharp and crisp as I thought it would be, not even with the 10x42 Vipers, and then tons of purple and green discoloration to outline of birds and tree branches. I googled the issue and it said that was Chromatic Aberration/Fringing. So now I'm really frustrated because I thought these were decent quality binoculars and was not expecting to experience this. So now I'm left wondering is it a binocular quality issue or something else? Any thoughts or info on this?

 

[safaridreaming]

sorry to hear about your experience...

Vortex has left me disappointed in both dealings I've had with them around quality. One was for their Razor spotting scope when the focuser came loose, and second time was when i purchased their 6.5x30 porro for my kids and it came with horrible collimation to the point where the images from each barrel wouldn't merge....

To their credit, both times responses were quick and refunds were prompt but the issues themselves have made me hesitate returning to that brand...

That being said I appreciate that CA may not be a quality issue - some ppl may be more prone to it than others. Do you hv experiences with binoculars where its NOT an issue to perhaps provide a baseline for what make / models are / aren't problematic.

 

[CathyMichiganBirds]

sorry to hear about your experience...

Vortex has left me disappointed in both dealings I've had with them around quality. One was for their Razor spotting scope when the focuser came loose, and second time was when i purchased their 6.5x30 porro for my kids and it came with horrible collimation to the point where the images from each barrel wouldn't merge....

To their credit, both times responses were quick and refunds were prompt but the issues themselves have made me hesitate returning to that brand...

That being said I appreciate that CA may not be a quality issue - some ppl may be more prone to it than others. Do you hv experiences with binoculars where its NOT an issue to perhaps provide a baseline for what make / models are / aren't problematic.

I really don't have any baseline to compare to. I'm new to using binoculars. I do have some old Tasco 7x35 porro prism binoculars that I could compare to, I will have to experiment with those to compare. I'm just surprised I experienced this with these binoculars, as they are not the cheapest ones out there. They are not the most expensive by any means, but still. And trying to fiqure out is its a quality issue, outdoor weather/lighting issue, or what?

 

[[email protected]]

Since you are new to using binoculars, I think you are having unrealistic expectations of what you are going to see when you use them. Birding is like amateur astronomy in that the pictures of birds you see in books is not what you are going to see when you look through your binoculars. When many people look through a telescope for the first time, they are disappointed because what they see doesn't look like the pictures the Hubble Telescope took of the same object. With almost any binoculars, even the alpha level ones, you are going to see some CA around the edges of objects. It will be less than the Viper HD's, but it will still be there. The Viper HD controls CA pretty well, but you will see some CA around the edge of objects. Did you notice The Diamondback's had more CA than the Viper's? They should because they don't have HD glass. Realize also that a 10x binocular of equal quality will show more CA than an 8x. As magnification increases, so usually does CA. You're observing conditions with the cloudy, gloomy skies, and your viewing angle looking upward toward the sky would be difficult for any binocular. When you have a white background, you are going to see CA more easily. Try your Viper's on a brighter, sunny day, and you will find they perform much better, and you won't notice the CA as much. I think your Vipers are probably performing as they should and if you compare them with the Tasco's you will see they give a much better image. Even the best alpha level binoculars do not seem to perform as well on gloomy, cloudy days as they do on a bright, sunny day. I think you need to lower your expectations of what you are going to see and have patience that those binoculars will perform and as you get more experience with them even though the birds don't look as good as pictures in a book you will realize what you are actually seeing is a real bird with your own eyes, and you will appreciate that fact. In amateur astronomy, I appreciate the fact that what I am seeing are the actual light waves that have travelled millions of light years to reach my eyes, even though it doesn't look like what you see in books. It is real!

 

[Ted Y.]

With almost any binoculars, even the alpha level ones, you are going to see some CA around the edges of objects.

I do not have your experience with binoculars, but really?
Not with Zeiss Victory pocket, no.

 

[Ted Y.]

That being said I appreciate that CA may not be a quality issue - some ppl may be more prone to it than others.

"more prone" as in "more affected" or as in "more aware"?
In other words, do we same the same awareness of CA but some do not care?

Errata: "do we have the same"

 

[[email protected]]

I do not have your experience with binoculars, but really?
Not with Zeiss Victory pocket, no.

Almost every binocular will show some CA on the edge of the FOV, even the alpha's like the Zeiss SF 8x42 and Swarovski EL 8.5x42, as can be seen in these Albino's reviews. Yes, even the Zeiss Victory pocket has some CA on the edge. I have had a lot of binoculars and I test every one for CA. The most perfect binocular I have ever looked through for CA control was the Zeiss FL 8x42, and it even had a little. There are some Apochromatic Telescopes that are virtually CA free, but they use many lenses of special glass to remove the CA, and they tend to be very expensive, like the Astrophysics Starfire and some people wait 15 to 20 years to get one!

Binoculars rankings - 8x42 - AllBinos.com

The best binocular tests on the net. The comprehensive database of binoculars with their parameters and users opinions. Interesting articles and comparisons.

www.allbinos.com

130mm f6.3 StarFire GTX "Gran Turismo" with 3.5" Focuser (130GTX)

Astro-Physics has been producing state-of-the-art telescopes, mountings and accessories since 1975.

www.astro-physics.com

 

[[email protected]]

"more prone" as in "more affected" or as in "more aware"?
In other words, do we same the same awareness of CA but some do not care?

Some people will claim to not see CA, or they are not bothered by it, but others are really bothered by it. It is really a personal thing.

 

[cytherian]

It is dependent upon a few things, from what I understand. First, if they're porro prism, CA is much less likely. And with smaller objective lenses, CA occurs much less. Case in point, I have 3 binoculars that are "entry level" in terms of tier pricing. Two are Nikon Travelites (9x25, 12x25) and one old Simmons [Japan, 7x42]. None of these are phase or low dispersion coated. ZERO CA. Believe me, I've put them to use in a wide range of optically challenged situations. A higher quality pair of roof prism BAK4 8x42 with ED revealed a very faint suggestion of CA with the moon nearly directly above in blazing bright white light. The 3 Porro prism binoculars were totally clean, no CA.

So I can verify being able to see CA when it is present (my 8x42 ED pointed at the bright full moon showed a super thin band of yellow coloration along the top edge and a super thin band of purple coloration at along the bottom edge--someone not looking for it wouldn't notice; I was actively looking for it).

Are those Vortex Vipers the HD model?

 

[CathyMichiganBirds]

Since you are new to using binoculars, I think you are having unrealistic expectations of what you are going to see when you use them. Birding is like amateur astronomy in that the pictures of birds you see in books is not what you are going to see when you look through your binoculars. When many people look through a telescope for the first time, they are disappointed because what they see doesn't look like the pictures the Hubble Telescope took of the same object. With almost any binoculars, even the alpha level ones, you are going to see some CA around the edges of objects. It will be less than the Viper HD's, but it will still be there. The Viper HD controls CA pretty well, but you will see some CA around the edge of objects. Did you notice The Diamondback's had more CA than the Viper's? They should because they don't have HD glass. Realize also that a 10x binocular of equal quality will show more CA than an 8x. As magnification increases, so usually does CA. You're observing conditions with the cloudy, gloomy skies, and your viewing angle looking upward toward the sky would be difficult for any binocular. When you have a white background, you are going to see CA more easily. Try your Viper's on a brighter, sunny day, and you will find they perform much better, and you won't notice the CA as much. I think your Vipers are probably performing as they should and if you compare them with the Tasco's you will see they give a much better image. Even the best alpha level binoculars do not seem to perform as well on gloomy, cloudy days as they do on a bright, sunny day. I think you need to lower your expectations of what you are going to see and have patience that those binoculars will perform and as you get more experience with them even though the birds don't look as good as pictures in a book you will realize what you are actually seeing is a real bird with your own eyes, and you will appreciate that fact. In amateur astronomy, I appreciate the fact that what I am seeing are the actual light waves that have travelled millions of light years to reach my eyes, even though it doesn't look like what you see in books. It is real!

The Diamondback's are HD model 8x42. I would say that I noticed more CA with the Viper HD 10x42, but I think that is as you said it is due to increased magnification and that's why I noticed it more with the Viper's. And that's what I was wondering, if the white background of the sky was an issue as you are saying can happen on cloudy days when looking at dark images against white background. I'm sure my expectations are high and guess I will have to experiment with different weather/lighting conditions. I guess I was hoping/looking for something that would perform well in low lighting conditions as birds are often active at sunset/dusk. I have read the some binoculars have ED glass that is suppose to supposedly eliminate CA. The Viper's glass is described as "

• HD (High Density) extra-low dispersion glass' .......but still experienced the CA. Not sure if I need to look into another brand of binocular that also has ED glass. But like you said even the best and most expensive binoculars can only do so much under certain weather/lighting conditions. I do appreciate your through explanation. Thank you!!! I will definitely experiment in different weather conditions.

 

[CathyMichiganBirds]

It is dependent upon a few things, from what I understand. First, if they're porro prism, CA is much less likely. And with smaller objective lenses, CA occurs much less. Case in point, I have 3 binoculars that are "entry level" in terms of tier pricing. Two are Nikon Travelites (9x25, 12x25) and one old Simmons [Japan, 7x42]. None of these are phase or low dispersion coated. ZERO CA. Believe me, I've put them to use in a wide range of optically challenged situations. A higher quality pair of roof prism BAK4 8x42 with ED revealed a very faint suggestion of CA with the moon nearly directly above in blazing bright white light. The 3 Porro prism binoculars were totally clean, no CA.

So I can verify being able to see CA when it is present (my 8x42 ED pointed at the bright full moon showed a super thin band of yellow coloration along the top edge and a super thin band of purple coloration at along the bottom edge--someone not looking for it wouldn't notice; I was actively looking for it).

Are those Vortex Vipers the HD model?

Everything you describe sounds right on point!! The 2 pair of binoculars I'm currently comparing are Vortex Viper HD 10x42 and Vortex Diamondback HD 8x42. Neither one is porro prism. I choose roof prism because they are more lightweight and I did not want to be out birding with large, bulky, heavy binoculars. I went to the store today and looked at some Vanguard roof prism BAK4 8x42 with ED, binoculars, and as you said it did reveal a faint suggestion of CA, but as you said I was looking specifically for CA, someone else may not have even noticed it, but when I experienced the CA with the Viper's and Diamondback's I was not looking for it, I was focusing more on clarity of image and BAM .......there it was, Lot's of CA, lit up like a Christmas tree....LOL! So lighting conditions and prism type are apparently definite factors. Thank you for your input, I'm definitely learning alot from everyone's feedback!

 

[Canip]

HD (High Density)

I thought HD meant High Definition, not High Density.
It‘s used on many binos (e.g. Leica UV) and doesn‘t mean anything specific.

I believe the type of prism doesn‘t have anything to do with CA.

 

[CathyMichiganBirds]

I thought HD meant High Definition, not High Density.
It‘s used on many binos (e.g. Leica UV) and doesn‘ mean anything specific.

I believe the type of prism doesn‘t have anything to do with CA.

You are correct ..... "HD meant High Definition, not High Density". I copied the info about HD (high density) from Cabela's website, obviously an error on their part.

 

[has530]

I believe the type of prism doesn‘t have anything to do with CA.

I dont think it should but I do think roof prisms tend to prioritize compactness more than porros which can mean the use of faster objectives and thus higher chromatic abberation. I also remember reading I'm recent years a discussion suggesting that modern multi-coatings makes CA "pop" more due to higher transmission at the ends of the visible spectrum.

Also a suggestion for the original poster... be very sure you have your IPD set just right. Decentering of the exit pupil can bring out a lot of nasty chromatic abberation. Sometimes I will even fiddle with the IPD while looking at dark branches against the sky until I minimize CA to ensure exact IPD distance and pupil placement.

 

[CathyMichiganBirds]

I dont think it should but I do think roof prisms tend to prioritize compactness more than porros which can mean the use of faster objectives and thus higher chromatic abberation. I also remember reading I'm recent years a discussion suggesting that modern multi-coatings makes CA "pop" more due to higher transmission at the ends of the visible spectrum.

Also a suggestion for the original poster... be very sure you have your IPD set just right. Decentering of the exit pupil can bring out a lot of nasty chromatic abberation. Sometimes I will even fiddle with the IPD while looking at dark branches against the sky until I minimize CA to ensure exact IPD distance and pupil placement.

Very good point about IPD. I'm just learning about this and I don't really have that perfected. I really need to research/google/You-tube how to adjust IPD correctly because I'm struggling with that and it definitely is causing me issues. I'm not so sure that the purple and green fringing/CA is due to IPD though, but I could be wrong. I do notice black discoloration along edging when my IPD is off.

 

[A2GG]

Are you wearing eyeglasses when looking through the binoculars? If so you need to make sure your eyes are aligned properly with the exit pupils of the binocular. being even slightly off will show more CA. Even if you don’t wear glasses it’s important to align your eyes properly.
The IPD adjustment already mentioned is crucial.

Some of the higher power binos (like 10x) may show more CA especially inexpensive models. Higher quality binos normally have better lenses in the objective end which help control CA/fringing.

I think you just need more time using binoculars. I remember feeling very frustrated in the beginning trying to follow quick moving birds.

 

[tehri]

@CathyMichiganBirds :
' I googled the issue... So now I'm really frustrated because I thought these were decent quality binoculars and was not expecting to experience this... I really don't have any baseline to compare to. I'm new to using binoculars.... I'm just learning... '

Hello Cathy... I'm briefly sharing with you a thought that often comes to me when reading posts, here or elsewhere... I'll try to make it short.
I don't know if this will help you, but who knows ?

What you say is touching because you really seem to discover a budding passion, to be really interested, etc etc.
For me, in most cases, it's a bad calculation, a real mistake, to want to buy cheaper binoculars, and in particular if you feel a passion, a real interest in observing nature in all its majesty.

Of course, I wouldn't tell you the same thing if you were passionate about cars, and you want a hyper model to feel all the sensations, like a Bugatti Chiron at $3,825,000, or a Ferrari SF90 Stradale at $511,250... But here we are not talking about Hypercars with these crazy prices, but about Hyper binoculars at around 1100-2300$ !!!!!!!
With a Hypercar you will experience unknown sensations on the road, but reserved for very few people because of their cost... With Hyper binoculars you'll experience unknown sensations in nature but with a cost between ~ 1000 and 2000$, and when you really want it, it's far possible for everyone !!!
This is for me a miscalculation that far too many people do !

I don't know you, Cathy, I don't know what you're waiting for, but you seem demanding with good reason, and want to give your eyes everything they deserve: the Beauty of the world !
And believe me, with this range of 'Alpha' binoculars, you will dream, be literally transported, feel emotions you never knew before, take my word for it !!... And no more AC problems, and all the other stupid worries !!!!
Looks like you already made the mistake of buying those 2 pairs of Vortex, which must have already cost you about over 800$ !!... that would have already paid you a good chunk of a pair of 'Alpha binoculars !
My advice for you to stop caring : sell these binoculars, or return them, and try Zeiss, Swarovski, or Leica... and please don't be swayed by other advice and other cheaper brands: they will ALWAYS be less good quality, despite everything you may read !!
If you can, find a dealer where you can actually test these binoculars, and not just quickly on the street !!!... It takes a bit of time, a few hours at least, and is part of the fun of this purchase.

I have always been a Swarovski user, and can only recommend this brand to you... but please test the Zeiss Victory SFL 8 or 10 x40 (~$1800), and Swarovski NL Pure 10x32 ($2300)... why these ? it would take too long to explain, and I wanted to make it short !! lol !!
Can't afford them right now?...just save a little, or take them with 3 or 4 installments which is usually offered !
You will discover sensations and pleasure that you did not even suspect by just looking through these Vortex or other brands of the same kind !!
Your eyes and your brain deserve the best, don't compromise, don't haggle !! You came to this site for some advice, and I just try to give you mine.

Btw, I agree on many points with @denco, of course, but not at all when he says: ' I think you need to lower your expectations of what you are going to see ' !!!!
You do so with Vortex and others, may be, lol !!!... BUT, PLEASE, NEVER LOW YOUR EXPECTATIONS !!!!
Your expectations will be fulfilled every day with 'Alpha' binoculars that you will have chosen for yourself... this is precisely what makes their difference, giving you even more than all your expectations !!!!! Each outing is a refreshment for your eyes, your brain, a 'scan' of the world around you that you didn't suspect before, Cathy... an enchantment.

(°v°)

 

[dries1]

Don't overthink just set the IPD, the diopter and stare. Remember binoculars are like everything in life you really do get what you pay for.

 

[Maljunulo]

When you buy optics in a given price range, you have to accept the optical and mechanical compromises that the manufacturer has to make in order to sell at that price.

The unfortunate consequence of that fact is that the only way to get away from those compromises is to spend more money.

You might want to think about the buying a used version of a better glass. Do this only from a reputable dealer, and preferably in person.

 

[pat mitchel]

Personally, I think you just experienced the worst possible scenario for CA. Because the 2 vortex appeared to operate poorly in that one situation would you discount them totally from future use? How was the rest of the day? No bino is going to satisfy all scenarios. All depends on how and where you are willing to compromise. Regards, Pat (who has been working on a classic (late 50's era) porro bino that has an irritating CA about a 1/2 degree off axis and worsens after that !)